|
5 years ago ::
Nov 18, 2007 - 9:13AM
#1
|
|
|
When I first found Pagan religions I didn't understand why someone or some group didn't form an umbrella group that everyone could join and support so that we would have some political clout. And maybe provide some way to curb people who were doing very bad things in the name of a Pagan religion, also as a source of non-embarrassing spokespeople. Then I discovered that no two Pagans can agree on anything!
Does anyone think that it would be a good idea? Why or why not?
Where would leadership come from?
Could Pagans actually organize themselves?
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Nov 18, 2007 - 10:32AM
#2
|
|
|
We are different religions. Part of our strength is our autonomy. (Which is also, paradoxically, part of our weakness.) Let's start with the obvious question. Since it is first necessary to explore the whyfors, before we can postulate the how tos.
Why should we unite?
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Nov 18, 2007 - 5:10PM
#3
|
|
|
[QUOTE=TheWhiteHart;77974]
Why should we unite?[/QUOTE]
Why should any religion unite? Considering the history of Christianity as an example, it was once almost as disseperate as modern paganism- with many different creeds and theologies abounding. It is entirely possible that paganism will never unite and centralize- it is also entirely possible that it will. You are making assumptions based upon current conditions, perhaps pagans will start to unite to create more of a unified effort at exerting political sway for acceptance. Perhaps they will unite to create more communities for their children to be a part of. Perhaps they will unite for bake sales.
Just because Christians have to put up with scary alter guild ladies now, doesn't mean they were always around. Hmmm- what would a pagan alter guild be like? Perish the thought! ;)
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.
Winston Churchill
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Nov 18, 2007 - 5:29PM
#4
|
|
|
As for myself, I see no reason for the different Pagan religions to try to unite or centralize as in the Catholic Church did to regulate beliefs. I do see a reason to unite politically when I see how effective the Christian Coallition has used that as a tool for getting what they want. Not that I want us to become them! But they have political clout and Pagans are generally ignored. For one thing, there aren't surveys about numbers, demographics. Plus, right now I think that most politicians would see Pagan support as detrimental, and I would like that to change.
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Nov 18, 2007 - 5:35PM
#5
|
|
|
[QUOTE=gillyflower;77856]When I first found Pagan religions I didn't understand why someone or some group didn't form an umbrella group that everyone could join and support so that we would have some political clout. And maybe provide some way to curb people who were doing very bad things in the name of a Pagan religion, also as a source of non-embarrassing spokespeople. Then I discovered that no two Pagans can agree on anything!
Does anyone think that it would be a good idea? Why or why not?
Where would leadership come from?
Could Pagans actually organize themselves?[/QUOTE]
Hey gillyflower,
I asked that same question a couple of years ago and got a lot of the same answers you're getting now.
I had expressed concern that the Religious Right was so well organized and sometimes it seemed that the only thing standing between us and the US becoming a theocracy was the poor old beleagured ACLU. Miss Elphaba pointed out "why not join the ACLU and put your support there".
That got me thinking. There are a number of organizations that are consistent with what I value that are not "Pagan" and perhaps that is where their strength is. They aren't just limited to one religious/spiritual tradition.
It would be reassuring though to be surrounded by others that shared the similar spiritual beliefs while working toward a goal. Something that supported some sort of group identity.
I don't know what the answer is. I have as many questions now as I had then.
peace,
samhain autumnwood.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Nov 18, 2007 - 6:21PM
#6
|
|
|
I belong to an organization called "The Pagan Alliance".
Our members come from many various Pagan faiths, as well as random Christians, Jews and others who support the cause.
The cause being the education, of ourselves and the general public, about what Paganism is, it's history, the multitude of religious beliefs, etc.
At times it is a wonderful organization. Other times it is wonderful, but not necessarily organized.
:D
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Nov 18, 2007 - 8:21PM
#7
|
|
|
I passionately love the differences in various Pagan religions and beliefs. However I would have no problem uniting in a Political way. I do think we as a group should try and create some kind of something Since we are largely considered an inconveience and people do not think we are for real.
Thus we are not as protected as we should be even in the land of the Free. I heard horror stories about Pagans being attacked and a Woman in Michigan (I think) whos house was broken into and her animals killed because she had the nerve to ask for a Pagan prayer at the town meeting as they did for Xtians.
If Pagans as a political group were visible and strong in educating the pubilc maybe we could soften some of the fears and lies told about us and at least make incident like this less likely.
But of course we would all keep our seperate religious and beliefs systems.
I hope that was cohereant if not blame lack of sleep. and me not in bed yet:p
Cheers
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Nov 18, 2007 - 8:31PM
#8
|
|
|
I don't see the need to unite Pagans as Pagans. There are plenty of organizations that advocate freedom of concience and beleif, let us unite in support of the groups that fight for all of our freedoms. As a Pagan, I respect your right to beleive as you choose, but that becomes a problem if we form a group and write a definition of "us" in stone. What if you don't fit? What if I don't fit?
Let us not worry about orgainizing as just us Pagans, but let us Pagans unite in support of the rights of all citizens. Let that "us" be seen to include strong Pagan participation, rather than making us just one more special interest lobby looking to skew things in favour of our particular wants.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Nov 19, 2007 - 6:25AM
#9
|
|
|
[QUOTE=John_T_Mainer;79193]I don't see the need to unite Pagans as Pagans. There are plenty of organizations that advocate freedom of concience and beleif, let us unite in support of the groups that fight for all of our freedoms. As a Pagan, I respect your right to beleive as you choose, but that becomes a problem if we form a group and write a definition of "us" in stone. What if you don't fit? What if I don't fit?
Let us not worry about orgainizing as just us Pagans, but let us Pagans unite in support of the rights of all citizens. Let that "us" be seen to include strong Pagan participation, rather than making us just one more special interest lobby looking to skew things in favour of our particular wants.[/QUOTE]
I agree, John. Get involved with groups that are out there fighting for everyone.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Nov 19, 2007 - 8:24AM
#10
|
|
|
[QUOTE=Willow Rhiamon;78919]
Don't believe me? Yeah, the Pagan Student alliance at the local college changed their name to the Spiritual and Pagan Student alliance because non Pagans said they wanted to attend but wouldn't feel comfortable doing that unless the name was changed. They changed the name and those new people never attended a meeting.
.[/QUOTE]
This is what happens when you have no hard and fast belief. Its also why .1% is about the top limit for this movement in the world. *Disbelief* alone just isnt enough to fill the needs of souls or form a solid anchor point and the relativism means there will be no other glue to hold the organization together against the centrifigal forces of individual ideas and worldviews.
To put it in simple terms...when you stand for nothing you fall for anything. A "spiritual seeker" meets the criteria of rejecting Christianity but doesnt have anything else in common with the larger group. The group can find no reason to not accept the "seeker" and then finds another bit of chaos moving in its own direction inside the group.
|
|
|
