[QUOTE=freelancemonotheist;82187]That's so weird, don't we live in the United States? I mean you don't need to be an atheist to read the constitution.[/QUOTE]

Having had a Catholic upbringing I feel confident in stating that growing up I wasn't encouraged to read anything of any importance - the Bible (which you think would BE important) or anything else...   We got fed alot of information third or fourth hand in Catholic Grade School.     I do remember having to study in order to pass the "constitution test" -- fifth grade?  I think.    The nuns just promoted rote memorization for that one.  We didn't actually talk about what the stuff meant or anything or did any sort of "extra" work about it.  Just memorize these answers... that was what we did.     Never saw or heard anything else about "government" stuff until an  AP History course in public HS. 

I bet alot of people just remember a hazy  "cliff notes" / What they've heard in the media version of what's in the Constitution and the rest of the documents on how our government works...   It's sad.

I had a similar experience in one of my classes last year. It was a class called "The History of Science", and inevitably, Charles Darwin was up for discussion. As with most religious discussions, the topic quickly turned to the existence of God and if Darwin's influence may have lead to increased atheism and thus society's downward spiral.

One guy started going off about how atheists have no morals or intelligence, they just have orgies and kill babies (I'm totally serious). Basically, he was claiming that atheists were all just idiots that don't know any better and should just keep their mouths shut or be locked up for heresy. Atheists were just as bad, if not the same, as human-sacrificing satanists to this student.

Usually, I'm more or less silent during these discussions, preferring to be an observer. But this guy just put me over the edge. So here I am, little blonde girl that sits in the back of the class every day diligently taking notes, never saying a word. But this day, I raised my hand.

"As an atheist, I assure you, I've never had an orgy or made any kind of sacrifice--human or otherwise. Perhaps there are some that have done these vile things, but if you're going to generalize all of us, you may as well generalize all Christians as well. I don't believe the atrocities of history have always been carried out by atheists and non-believers, have they? So why not count the numerous crimes carried out in the name of Christianity and belief in the divine?"

I don't think he heard anything past the first sentence out of my mouth, because he just sat there, with everyone else in the class, jaw on the floor and wide-eyed. "You're an atheist? YOU?" Like it's so hard to believe that atheists can look perfectly civilized. Total Martian moment.

I had to laugh, because for all his rambling on and on about how stupid and ignorant atheists are for not believing, he had bought class notes off of me in three other courses we had taken together throughout college and repeatedly told me that he would've failed had I not helped him out. So a stupid atheist helped him graduate from college. Now that I think about it, I kinda regret helping him...but maybe his knowing that I'm an atheist could have sparked some changed opinion of non-believers. Yeah, I know, that's probably too idealistic...

[QUOTE=cryfreedom57;120298]As an atheist, I assure you, I've never had an orgy or made any kind of sacrifice--human or otherwise. [/QUOTE]

Well what is the fun in that?!?

Seriously though, the guy giving you the hard time, saying atheists are idiots, will say exactly the same sort of thing about Mormons, or Catholics, or Hindus...  It is a shame that some people have learned to harbor such venomous feelings about the "others" in our wonderfully pluralistic society.

So, as one atheist to another, I say hang in there...and if you have a spare moment from your studies, why not frolic in a baby-sacrificing orgy!!

fox

I agree that the question of whether pets - or any animals - have souls is a bit like debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.  I can remember having a similar debate with my own father after I joined the Mormon Church.  You see, the Mormons hold the opposite view, that all living beings have spirits, otherwise they would not be alive.  Mormons look at the Genesis account of Adam's creation - with God breathing into him "the breath of life" - as well as the Book of Revelation, where John sees all kinds of beasts in Heaven, at least some of whom Joseph Smith considered far less than metaphorical.

The problem with all such debates is that they turn on the predilections of the debaters, who selectively quote from scripture in the vain hope of investing their own  predilections with divine authority.  Ironically, nobody jumps up and asks whether the scriptures themselves aren't simply the predilections of men who long since dead and whose authority for making such authoritative statements should not be presumed.

If a person can assume he or she knows how to interpret the Bible better than anyone else, why can't that person simply take the next step and assume the right to make their own decisions - without hiding behind the Bible?

Maybe it's because supernatural claims are just so ridiculous, nobody wants to suggest they came up with this nonsense - except, perhaps, for a few egotistical delusionists and charlatans who are well-practiced at the art of conning the weak-minded.  The average individual is so insecure that he or she would rather say all this was somebody else's idea, and that they are exercising "faith."