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7 years ago  ::  Oct 22, 2007 - 6:41PM #1
Ironhold
Posts: 11,593
http://www.fstdt.com/forums/thread.aspx?p=75145

There's a guy here named Akage who is a former member.

He's gone to a few ex-member websites and has had his head filled with horror stories about what goes on during the endowment ceremony.

None of the endowed members he's spoken with have even tried talking to him about things, and I highly doubt that what he's getting on the ex-member sites is accurate.

I'm trying to get him to look at things from the LDS perspective, but he seems to be stuck. And since I've not gotten endowed yet, I really can't speak on the issue.


Could someone give me a hand?

Thanks.
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 22, 2007 - 10:52PM #2
withwonderingawe
Posts: 5,382
Iron

He's looking for the negative, there's not much you can do for him.

But pray for his sister.
Wise men still seek him.
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 23, 2007 - 12:29AM #3
BillThinks4Himself
Posts: 3,207
[QUOTE=withwonderingawe;15423]Iron

He's looking for the negative, there's not much you can do for him.

But pray for his sister.[/QUOTE]
Whether you can do anything for him depends on whether he's quoting this stuff to dismiss the faith or citing it in a cry for help. 

When people ask me about the endowment, I tell them that it's a unique experience in a unique place.  Sunday worship revolves around the basics - faith, repentance, baptism and enduring to the end.  LDS chapels and stake centers are about the intersection between the LDS community and the outside world.  Anyone can drop in.  Much of the instruction is basic.  Members are taught how to bring that basic message to the world.  They're also taught how to live it.  In many ways, LDS chapels and stake centers are field hospitals, rest centers along a path that sometimes feels like a proving ground.

The temple, by contrast, is more intimate and more advanced.  It's for the serious.  It's quieter, off-limits to looky-loos and centered on the relationship between men and God, between the temporal and the eternal, between Earth and Heaven, between man ends and God condescends.  Regardless of the architectural style of the specific temple, the whole idea of temple worship is inspired by Moses's famous communion with God on Mount Sinai.  As reflected in the interlocking triangles in the famous Star of David, the temple is about man's struggle to seek edification and personal improvement, as well as God's grace in bridging the gap between human fallibility and divine omnipotence, between human imperfection and God's fullness.

The temple experience is a radical departure from ordinary worship.  Everything in it is dramatic, symbolic, allegorical and perhaps over-the-top.  People who insist on taking everything as literally as possible are often burdened with an eccentric understanding of what's going on.  What if one could create a kind of stage on which ordinary people were able to take part in a dramatic presentation that discusses the point of life and how to get the msot out of it?

Describing the temple is like telling somebody about a dream.  No matter how real the experience, now matter how moving, it's still an oddity.  Outside of its dramatic context, the temple makes little sense.  It's an easy target for those who mock LDS beliefs and practices.  But within the context of its activities, the temple is a source of inspiration and renewal.

No self-respecting Latter-day Saint would feel comfortable discussing everything, but there's plenty of information, available from Church leaders, that goes over the highlights.  While most people don't think of church attendance as a form of expression, temple attendance is most definitely that.  Temple patrons dress up, present a certificate showing worthiness to enter, wear ceremonial clothing and participate in an anachronistic ceremony that uses the Garden of Eden story as a basis for discussing mortality within the eternal scheme.  The Plan of Salvation, as envisioned by the LDS, is God's way of using adversity to actualize the divinity in man.

I've met people who were put off by the temple experience, especially people who were expecting something less dramatic.  They didn't understand all the pageantry.  They got confused over some of the verbage.  Anti-Mormon literature does a good job of exploiting this confusion to fill the undecided with false claims and misleading suggestions about what this or that must mean.  Appealing through fear, much of this stuff is about using innuendo to unsettle a person's perception about the whole experience.
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 23, 2007 - 12:59AM #4
White-Dove
Posts: 558
[QUOTE=Ironhold;14844]http://www.fstdt.com/forums/thread.aspx?p=75145

There's a guy here named Akage who is a former member.

He's gone to a few ex-member websites and has had his head filled with horror stories about what goes on during the endowment ceremony.

None of the endowed members he's spoken with have even tried talking to him about things, and I highly doubt that what he's getting on the ex-member sites is accurate.

I'm trying to get him to look at things from the LDS perspective, but he seems to be stuck. And since I've not gotten endowed yet, I really can't speak on the issue.


Could someone give me a hand?

Thanks.[/QUOTE]  Is this the same thing as a penis enlargement?
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 23, 2007 - 8:45AM #5
withwonderingawe
Posts: 5,382

White-Dove wrote:

Is this the same thing as a penis enlargement?






Oh this is a good one; one for the most ridiculous thread.

Wise men still seek him.
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 23, 2007 - 9:52AM #6
Ironhold
Posts: 11,593
[QUOTE=BillThinks4Himself;15577]Whether you can do anything for him depends on whether he's quoting this stuff to dismiss the faith or citing it in a cry for help. 

When people ask me about the endowment, I tell them that it's a unique experience in a unique place.  Sunday worship revolves around the basics - faith, repentance, baptism and enduring to the end.  LDS chapels and stake centers are about the intersection between the LDS community and the outside world.  Anyone can drop in.  Much of the instruction is basic.  Members are taught how to bring that basic message to the world.  They're also taught how to live it.  In many ways, LDS chapels and stake centers are field hospitals, rest centers along a path that sometimes feels like a proving ground.

The temple, by contrast, is more intimate and more advanced.  It's for the serious.  It's quieter, off-limits to looky-loos and centered on the relationship between men and God, between the temporal and the eternal, between Earth and Heaven, between man ends and God condescends.  Regardless of the architectural style of the specific temple, the whole idea of temple worship is inspired by Moses's famous communion with God on Mount Sinai.  As reflected in the interlocking triangles in the famous Star of David, the temple is about man's struggle to seek edification and personal improvement, as well as God's grace in bridging the gap between human fallibility and divine omnipotence, between human imperfection and God's fullness.

The temple experience is a radical departure from ordinary worship.  Everything in it is dramatic, symbolic, allegorical and perhaps over-the-top.  People who insist on taking everything as literally as possible are often burdened with an eccentric understanding of what's going on.  What if one could create a kind of stage on which ordinary people were able to take part in a dramatic presentation that discusses the point of life and how to get the msot out of it?

Describing the temple is like telling somebody about a dream.  No matter how real the experience, now matter how moving, it's still an oddity.  Outside of its dramatic context, the temple makes little sense.  It's an easy target for those who mock LDS beliefs and practices.  But within the context of its activities, the temple is a source of inspiration and renewal.

No self-respecting Latter-day Saint would feel comfortable discussing everything, but there's plenty of information, available from Church leaders, that goes over the highlights.  While most people don't think of church attendance as a form of expression, temple attendance is most definitely that.  Temple patrons dress up, present a certificate showing worthiness to enter, wear ceremonial clothing and participate in an anachronistic ceremony that uses the Garden of Eden story as a basis for discussing mortality within the eternal scheme.  The Plan of Salvation, as envisioned by the LDS, is God's way of using adversity to actualize the divinity in man.

I've met people who were put off by the temple experience, especially people who were expecting something less dramatic.  They didn't understand all the pageantry.  They got confused over some of the verbage.  Anti-Mormon literature does a good job of exploiting this confusion to fill the undecided with false claims and misleading suggestions about what this or that must mean.  Appealing through fear, much of this stuff is about using innuendo to unsettle a person's perception about the whole experience.[/QUOTE]

Mind if I quote you?
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 23, 2007 - 7:22PM #7
BillThinks4Himself
Posts: 3,207
Thanks for asking.  I have no problem with that.  I hope it helps generate a healthy discussion.
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 23, 2007 - 8:56PM #8
Ironhold
Posts: 11,593
[QUOTE=BillThinks4Himself;17558]Thanks for asking.  I have no problem with that.  I hope it helps generate a healthy discussion.[/QUOTE]

Forwarded.
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 01, 2007 - 10:46PM #9
Gaia-j
Posts: 636
Iron, i checked out that group, even tried posting several replies to different questions (including Akage's) --

But that group is one of the nastiest, most profane, meanspirited and frankly, immature groups that i have EVER seen, in about 20 years on the internet -- ]

I think they're mostly a bunch of rageaholic, depressed late-teen/ 20-somethings who use it as a sewer.   

I did leave a message suggesting that anybody interested in legitimate, sincere, respectful discussion, try here at B'Net.


But frankly, it is NOT a place to which i would invite anyone -- let alone anybody interested in (sincere) spirituality. 

~Gaia
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 02, 2007 - 1:46AM #10
moksha8088
Posts: 5,024

Gaia-j wrote:



I think they're mostly a bunch of rageaholic, depressed late-teen/ 20-somethings who use it as a sewer.

But frankly, it is NOT a place to which i would invite anyone -- let alone anybody interested in (sincere) spirituality.

~Gaia



Yikes, even though Iron is in the same age group, it might not be the best place for him to hang out.  Of course, I can remember being young and more rebellious once.  What's that you say nurse?  Time for another gosh darn nap? Well got to go. They might be having tapioca here at the home when I wake up.

Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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