Why?

[jumbojava]

Why does the bible god hate unbelievers so much?

Why does he kill so many of them?

[selah]

Why does the bible god hate unbelievers so much?

Why does he kill so many of them?



JJ,You have to understand that Jesus doesnt 'hate'anyone,He cant hate,JJ,He is =LOVE.


Your pov about Jesus,is what makes you believe that He hates,but in all sincerity and reality Jesus loves us all.

JJ,Jesus doesnt 'KILL"anyone,It is HIS WILL that none persih,thats why He died for us so that we may LIVE....
If one ends up in heaven its gonna be because they wanted to go...just as if the ones whom end up absent from his Presence(Hell)...they will be thier on purpose,of thier own free will,JJ.....

You simply will not enter the DOOR{JC}that will alllow you to have Eternal LIFE,that is your choice.....not Gods'.

It is YOUR choice to make,you have rejected Jesus Christ,He, I assure,you has not rejected you,by any means,His arms are wide open,and ready to invite you IN,however He is a gentlemen JJ,He will not GO where He is not welcomed...

In order to accept Jesus,you first have to understand that He made you in his image and that He loved us so much that he took our penalty to the cross,so that we wouldnt have to Pay...we sinned against the very God that breathed Life into us alll....and He paid the PRICE in full...by all rights we should be DEAD,however His Love was sent so that we may have eternal Life....

You and others have decided to shake your 'fists'at God,so therefore your in rebellion and you dont see the Light in the Darkness,you dont see the LOVE that your Heavnly Father has given you,because your own eyes are blinded by your rebeliion.....


Ceratinly God did not have to ask us,for our advice when The Plan of Salvation was sent=JC....does the clay say to the Potter,"make me this way' "NO"...he is the Potter,we are his creation and although that creation 'disobeyed"he came to make it perfect...so in HIM lies LIFE and in HIM lies TRUTH and in HIM lies the Righteousness...

Dont get upset or angry because you dont understand HIM,JJ...He says that if any want wisdom that he will gladly give it to HIM...if you want understanding then follow His ways and He will direct your path....However JJ,you REJECTED HIS WAYS and HIS PATH,God doesnt want you to reject HIM,He wants you to LOVE HIM...

Cant you see that the choice is YOURS and YOURS Alone?


Selah

[jumbojava]

JJ,You have to understand that Jesus doesnt 'hate'anyone,He cant hate,JJ,He is =LOVE.


Your pov about Jesus,is what makes you believe that He hates,but in all sincerity and reality Jesus loves us all.

JJ,Jesus doesnt 'KILL"anyone,It is HIS WILL that none persih,thats why He died for us so that we may LIVE....
If your god and JC are the same then yes, your god kills, and has promised to come back to finish off all unbelievers once and for all.


If one ends up in heaven its gonna be because they wanted to go...just as if the ones whom end up absent from his Presence(Hell)...they will be thier on purpose,of thier own free will,JJ....
That's the same as saying we are chosing to go to hell for believing in a different religion or no religion at all. IOW's it's believe or burn.

Those are not choices. That is a promise of death for non-worship.


You simply will not enter the DOOR{JC}that will alllow you to have Eternal LIFE,that is your choice.....not Gods' .
My choice of chosing a different religion will result in your god turning its back and letting me go to hell.

Tell me how that is fair or loving. Because I'm just not seeing it at all.


It is YOUR choice to make,you have rejected Jesus Christ,He, I assure,you has not rejected you,by any means,His arms are wide open,and ready to invite you IN,however He is a gentlemen JJ,He will not GO where He is not welcomed...
Indeed.

He'd rather see me in hell for not bending a knee to him.

How loving of him....


In order to accept Jesus,you first have to understand that He made you in his image and that He loved us so much that he took our penalty to the cross,so that we wouldnt have to Pay...we sinned against the very God that breathed Life into us alll....and He paid the PRICE in full...by all rights we should be DEAD,however His Love was sent so that we may have eternal Life....
Or else, right?

People still go to hell for simply believing in a different religion, Selah. Doesnt matter if you are a kind and decent person, doesnt matter if they live a life of peace and generosity. All of that is worth squat if you happen to have the bad fortune to believe in the wrong relgion.

How many people I wonder, how many kind and decent folks has gone to hell once your JC demanded to be worshiped? How many have seen the 'love' of your god first hand and are paying for it now by forever trapped screaming in hell?

Tell me, Selah, where's the love here, where's the justice.

For I'm not seeing it at all.



You and others have decided to shake your 'fists'at God,so therefore your in rebellion and you dont see the Light in the Darkness,you dont see the LOVE that your Heavnly Father has given you,because your own eyes are blinded by your rebeliion.....
I simply do not see god as damning anyone, where hell is just a myth, where every single soul is precious and healed.

In your religion I will go to hell for believing in such a god.

Hell is for those who need to believe some folks just deserve pain and torment, forever.

Folks who need to believe in hell like you perhaps....?


Ceratinly God did not have to ask us,for our advice when The Plan of Salvation was sent=JC....does the clay say to the Potter,"make me this way' "NO"...he is the Potter,we are his creation and although that creation 'disobeyed"he came to make it perfect...so in HIM lies LIFE and in HIM lies TRUTH and in HIM lies the Righteousness...

Dont get upset or angry because you dont understand HIM,JJ
I'm not mad or upset in the least. I simply know a more loving god than the one you worship. Maybe you should talk to him sometime.


...He says that if any want wisdom that he will gladly give it to HIM...if you want understanding then follow His ways and He will direct your path...
Why do you think I know there is no hell?

.However JJ,you REJECTED HIS WAYS and HIS PATH,
I 'reject' what ive found to be non-truths.


God doesnt want you to reject HIM,He wants you to LOVE HIM...
Love that turns to death if i happen to not belive in the right religion.


Cant you see that the choice is YOURS and YOURS Alone?
I chose a different religion than yours, Selah, one where god is genuinely love unfathomable, where no one is forsakened, no one is damned to a place where no love or compassion exists at all.

Why dont you ask him why you need to believe that some folks deserver pain and eternal torment? Why dont you ask him why you need to believe in such horrors where love is gone and compassion dies.

Why dont you ask him why you want to believe in such horrors.

[Discerner]

If your god and JC are the same then yes, your god kills, and has promised to come back to finish off all unbelievers once and for all.



That's the same as saying we are chosing to go to hell for believing in a different religion or no religion at all. IOW's it's believe or burn.

Those are not choices. That is a promise of death for non-worship.



My choice of chosing a different religion will result in your god turning its back and letting me go to hell.

Tell me how that is fair or loving. Because I'm just not seeing it at all.



Indeed.

He'd rather see me in hell for not bending a knee to him.

How loving of him....



Or else, right?

People still go to hell for simply believing in a different religion, Selah. Doesnt matter if you are a kind and decent person, doesnt matter if they live a life of peace and generosity. All of that is worth squat if you happen to have the bad fortune to believe in the wrong relgion.

How many people I wonder, how many kind and decent folks has gone to hell once your JC demanded to be worshiped? How many have seen the 'love' of your god first hand and are paying for it now by forever trapped screaming in hell?

Tell me, Selah, where's the love here, where's the justice.

For I'm not seeing it at all.




I simply do not see god as damning anyone, where hell is just a myth, where every single soul is precious and healed.

In your religion I will go to hell for believing in such a god.

Hell is for those who need to believe some folks just deserve pain and torment, forever.

Folks who need to believe in hell like you perhaps....?



I'm not mad or upset in the least. I simply know a more loving god than the one you worship. Maybe you should talk to him sometime.



Why do you think I know there is no hell?


I 'reject' what ive found to be non-truths.



Love that turns to death if i happen to not belive in the right religion.



I chose a different religion than yours, Selah, one where god is genuinely love unfathomable, where no one is forsakened, no one is damned to a place where no love or compassion exists at all.

Why dont you ask him why you need to believe that some folks deserver pain and eternal torment? Why dont you ask him why you need to believe in such horrors where love is gone and compassion dies.

Why dont you ask him why you want to believe in such horrors.

The God who created us is a God of love. He created us as perfect human beings, with the ability to live forever without sickness, pain, sorrow, crime, or anything else that could make our lives miserable. As our Creator, He only asked one thing...not to partake of the fruit from a certain tree. Since God created us with the power of choice, the choice was made to disobey God and eat from that certain tree, then it was His choice to impose death and misery on humankind for their disobedience. He then offered His Son to die in our stead in order to reconcile us to Him once more. Those who accept this promise will once more be like the first couple in Eden before they sinned, and those who do not desire this promise but rather elect to continue their disobedience are doomed to death. It has to be this way so that sin can be eradicated completely. A person who does not love God and has a proclivity towards disobedience would not enjoy being in heaven anyway.

Discerner

[wontgetfooledagain]

The God who created us is a God of love. He created us as perfect human beings, with the ability to live forever without sickness, pain, sorrow, crime, or anything else that could make our lives miserable.

If we were 'perfect' then why did we 'screw up'? You can't be 'perfect'... but have imperfections. Right?




As our Creator, He only asked one thing...not to partake of the fruit from a certain tree. Since God created us with the power of choice, the choice was made to disobey God and eat from that certain tree, then it was His choice to impose death and misery on humankind for their disobedience.

Discerner

If we were 'perfect'.. then we would have made the 'perfect' choice.. right?

Rob

[Corrigan37]

Hi Rob.....:)

[selah]

[/B]

If we were 'perfect' then why did we 'screw up'? You can't be 'perfect'... but have imperfections. Right?

[B]

If we were 'perfect'.. then we would have made the 'perfect' choice.. right?

Rob

No b'cuz God created us with FREE-Will,so the choice to LOVE Him Back is ours,or else it wouldnt be Love.
Love is not a one-way street.
We were decieved,we disobeyed...why ya think God called out to Adam,after they sinned,God knew where Adam waz,the fact is God wanted Adam to "SEE'where he /himself waz?
Adam and Eve ran and Hid,when they heard God.....they knew they did wrong,however God,is a God of Love,He went and sought after them,for relationship....I thik that is so telling,of whom this God,really is...

Aww,,,a daddy come looking for his babies,loved em,even in thier SIN and guilt and shame....oh they were punished,its called tough love,however They were also LOVED,gave em back Eternal Life.


What an awesome God,and he took the Penalty for said SIN=death and he abolished Death...so that we have the Victory....awwww...




Selah

[selah]

JJ to Selah: I chose a different religion than yours, Selah, one where god is genuinely love unfathomable, where no one is forsakened, no one is damned to a place where no love or compassion exists at all.

Why dont you ask him why you need to believe that some folks deserver pain and eternal torment? Why dont you ask him why you need to believe in such horrors where love is gone and compassion dies.

Why dont you ask him why you want to believe in such horror..


Selah-JJ:
I know you have chosen the path of your kin,JJ
Love that God,JJ,go ahead....

Did you want me to ask ur God,or mine?

And if the answer is ur God,whats his name and how do I find Him?
Could I talk to HIM?
Would He allow me,to conversate with him,to communicate with him?
I dnt know that ur God exists,JJ.



Selah

[Discerner]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Discerner http://community.beliefnet.com/forums/beliefnet/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://community.beliefnet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=434382#post434382)
The God who created us is a God of love. He created us as perfect human beings, with the ability to live forever without sickness, pain, sorrow, crime, or anything else that could make our lives miserable.

Rob wrote: If we were 'perfect' then why did we 'screw up'? You can't be 'perfect'... but have imperfections. Right?

Rob, we were created in God's image, wnich made us 'perfect' in the beginning. Before sin entered the picture, man was without sickness and the other maladies that inhabit our world today, such as deformities, hate, war, etc. By the same token, though man was created 'perfectly', he was given the power of choice. God communed with Adam and Eve when they were still in the Garden of Eden. God did not want to create a being that was a robot and only did what it was told. He wanted a created being that would love and use their power of choice to respond to life's situations with wisdom and emotion. When they disobeyed God, using their power of choice, they made a poor choice. God had warned them that if they ate from that one tree, they would surely die. Satan deluded them through deceit, saying that they would not die. Looking back in retrospect, it is easy to discern what constituted the introduction of sin into this world.

Quote:

As our Creator, He only asked one thing...not to partake of the fruit from a certain tree. Since God created us with the power of choice, the choice was made to disobey God and eat from that certain tree, then it was His choice to impose death and misery on humankind for their disobedience.

Discerner

Rob wrote: If we were 'perfect'.. then we would have made the 'perfect' choice.. right?

Rob

Perfection in the realm of making choices was not meant to be done as a robot. The choice that was made by Adam and Eve was an act of disobedience on their part. Such has been the case ever since.

Discerner

[jumbojava]

JJ to Selah: I chose a different religion than yours, Selah, one where god is genuinely love unfathomable, where no one is forsakened, no one is damned to a place where no love or compassion exists at all.

Why dont you ask him why you need to believe that some folks deserver pain and eternal torment? Why dont you ask him why you need to believe in such horrors where love is gone and compassion dies.

Why dont you ask him why you want to believe in such horror..


Selah-JJ:
I know you have chosen the path of your kin,JJ
Love that God,JJ,go ahead....

Did you want me to ask ur God,or mine?

And if the answer is ur God,whats his name and how do I find Him?
Could I talk to HIM?
Would He allow me,to conversate with him,to communicate with him?
I dnt know that ur God exists,JJ.
I find that a silly question, and I think you know this.

Yours of course, since you dont believe mine exists and you arent allowed to speak with mine anyhow....

[selah]

I find that a silly question, and I think you know this.

Yours of course, since you dont believe mine exists and you arent allowed to speak with mine anyhow....

JJ: Why dont you ask him why you need to believe that some folks deserver pain and eternal torment?

Selah:Why I need to believe,that some folk deserve pain and eternal torment?

God created us and He created the Plan of salvation,why He chose what he chose,I have no idea,however Gods will is that none perish...as far as deserving....we all fall short,we all have sinned....Our disobedience seperated us fr God,SIN,entered the world,Sin if its allowed to run its full course will cause Death...the only thing that covers that sin is the blood of Jesus...

JJ: Why dont you ask him why you need to believe in such horrors where love is gone and compassion dies.
Selah:God is not void of Love and Compassion....He showed that Love and Compassion in Christ.


Selah

[jumbojava]

:Why I need to believe,that some folk deserve pain and eternal torment?

God created us and He created the Plan of salvation,why He chose what he chose,I have no idea,however Gods will is that none perish...as far as deserving....we all fall short,we all have sinned....Our disobedience seperated us fr God,SIN,entered the world,Sin if its allowed to run its full course will cause Death...the only thing that covers that sin is the blood of Jesus...
You believe that some just deserver abandonment and eternal torment? Where they never know love or compassion agian?


:God is not void of Love and Compassion....He showed that Love and Compassion in Christ.
It all fails as soon as you believe that any soul deserves hell.

[selah]

[QUOTE=jumbojava;436456]You believe that some just deserver abandonment and eternal torment? Where they never know love or compassion agian?

Selah: Did I say that JJ?


Selah]

[wontgetfooledagain]

Rob, we were created in God's image, wnich made us 'perfect' in the beginning. Before sin entered the picture, man was without sickness and the other maladies that inhabit our world today, such as deformities, hate, war, etc. By the same token, though man was created 'perfectly', he was given the power of choice.

If man was really 'perfect'.. he would make the 'perfect' choice. So man was never 'perfect' at all. You can't be perfect... and then make a mistake. That is a logical contradiction.

And didn't God know what man would do with this so called 'choice' BEFORE he created him?



Rob

[Discerner]

If man was really 'perfect'.. he would make the 'perfect' choice. So man was never 'perfect' at all. You can't be perfect... and then make a mistake. That is a logical contradiction.

And didn't God know what man would do with this so called 'choice' BEFORE he created him?



Rob

Man was created physically 'perfect' in every way, and lived in an environment where there were no outside abnormalities to alter him physically, and he was endowed with the ability to live forever. He also was created with a perfect ability to think and reason, being able to make decisions, but he was not created to be a robot, but rather was given the ability to choose what course of action he would take in response to anything that confronted him. If God made sure that man would only make the right decision, then man would not have the power of choice. Making a wrong choice cannot be blamed on an imperfect mind, but rather on making a wrong choice.

Yes, God 'foreknew' that man would disobey Him and sin, but He had a plan to reconcile man to Him again, but He created man anyway. It was an inexplicable expression of unfathomable love that God has for His created beings...love that we cannot understand or feel.

God bless!
Discerner

[wontgetfooledagain]

. Making a wrong choice cannot be blamed on an imperfect mind, but rather on making a wrong choice.

Where did that 'wrong' choice come from??? The mind maybe?



Yes, God 'foreknew' that man would disobey Him and sin, but He had a plan to reconcile man to Him again, but He created man anyway. It was an inexplicable expression of unfathomable love that God has for His created beings...love that we cannot understand or feel.



Love? God created man to fail. He did so because first, he CREATED them.. and then also knew the consequence of HIS creation. He knew who would not believe and who would believe. And he knew ALL of this BEFORE he created anything. So God decided who would go to heaven and who would go to hell. That is the only way it could be with this God.

(Note to Palmtree... I'm only agreeing with you theoretically ... lol ;))

Rob

[Palmtree0]

Where did that 'wrong' choice come from??? The mind maybe?



Love? God created man to fail. He did so because first, he CREATED them.. and then also knew the consequence of HIS creation. He knew who would not believe and who would believe. And he knew ALL of this BEFORE he created anything. So God decided who would go to heaven and who would go to hell. That is the only way it could be with this God.

(Note to Palmtree... I'm only agreeing with you theoretically ... lol ;))

Rob

Rob,
I understand that you have a beautiful daughter, right? Does she obey your every command? When she was a toddler and was reaching for the hot stove, did you command here not to touch it? Did she keep reaching for it? If so, did that make her any less perfect? Sometimes, you need to let a toddler feel a little heat on their skin, so they can learn that obeying your commands are for their overall benefit. Because later in life, when they are older, and you command then to not play near traffic, or to stay inside during a lightning storm, she won't be harmed in a more devastating way.

Likewise, we are essentially living our lives like Adam&Eve in the garden. We are learning why it is important to listen to God. Disobedience brings consequences and obedience to God is ultimately for our benefit. Nevertheless, God knows, (and foreknew), that we may need to feel a little heat in this life, before we finally learn that fact, and to learn to trust in God.

However, you are so narrowly and intently focused on those whom have thumbed their noses at any and all warnings of peril, and whom have been consequently killed in traffic and struck by lighting, that you insist on blaming God for their adamant disobedience and the tragic consequences which followed. If God didn't warn us, like He has warned them in the Garden, then YES, He could be blamed for neglect and allowing tragedy to occur. However, he has been LOUDLY sounding the warning, through people like me, ever since the beginning of Creation. So, why won't you heed the warnings of impending peril, especially since you know how real the consequences are??

Moreover, I very seriously doubt that your daughter dogmatically and adamantly proclaims everyday, that you don't exist because she is upset with you, for letting her touch that hot stove when she was younger. I think that she loves you for it. (theoretically, of course ;) )

[wontgetfooledagain]

Palm,

I'm not sure what you were really trying to tell me in that post. I was referring to Discerner's comment that we had a perfect mind... and then made the wrong choice. A perfect mind cannot make an imperfect choice. If it did, then it was never perfect to begin with.

Rob

[Discerner]

Palm,

I'm not sure what you were really trying to tell me in that post. I was referring to Discerner's comment that we had a perfect mind... and then made the wrong choice. A perfect mind cannot make an imperfect choice. If it did, then it was never perfect to begin with.

Rob

Rob, a person with an imperfect mind cannot mentally function in a sufficient manner to arrive at a decision that requires the assimiliation and processing of information logically. However, a person with a mind that is functioning perfectly not only can assimiliate and process information, but can make a logical or illogical decision based on emotion or any other personality characteristic, sometimes against their better judgment. How many times do people do something that they know is wrong, but do it anyway? That they do so against their better judgment doesn't prove that their mind is imperfect, only that their decision was wrong. It is how we learn the meaning of obedience and disobedience, their differences and their consequences. That is why man was made with the power of choice.

A computer is an example of a robot. It only does what it has been programmed to do and any deviation will either not be allowed by the computer or result in it malfunctioning. It does not have the capability of making choices other than those programmed into it. God did not make man in this manner, but rather gave us the tools to function within the realm of His rules and laws, while informing man of the penalties for not following His rules and laws. With this knowledge, man then was given the right to choose. If Adam and Eve had obeyed God, history might have been much different.

God bless!
Discerner

[Palmtree0]

Palm,

I'm not sure what you were really trying to tell me in that post. I was referring to Discerner's comment that we had a perfect mind... and then made the wrong choice. A perfect mind cannot make an imperfect choice. If it did, then it was never perfect to begin with.

Rob

I'm saying that it takes a perfect mind to completely understand a perfect mind, and so both of us are at a huge disadvantage with that subject!

[wontgetfooledagain]

. If Adam and Eve had obeyed God, history might have been much different.

God bless!
Discerner

The Adam and Eve story is just another paradox. God created Adam and Eve... and put the tree in the Garden. Of course, God knew before he created Adam and Eve that they would disobey... right? In fact, God CREATED them to disobey. God knew before he told them not to eat the apple.. that they would. God was in charge of all the variables, initial conditions..etc.. and then set it all in motion knowing the consequences of HIS actions BEFORE he even created them. God created Adam and Eve to fall. He wanted them to. There is no other way to get around that.

Rob

[Corrigan37]

The Adam and Eve story is just another paradox. God created Adam and Eve... and put the tree in the Garden. Of course, God knew before he created Adam and Eve that they would disobey... right? In fact, God CREATED them to disobey. God knew before he told them not to eat the apple.. that they would. God was in charge of all the variables, initial conditions..etc.. and then set it all in motion knowing the consequences of HIS actions BEFORE he even created them. God created Adam and Eve to fall. He wanted them to. There is no other way to get around that.

Rob

An apple? how do you know it wasn't a banana?

*chuckle*:p

[wontgetfooledagain]

An apple? how do you know it wasn't a banana?

*chuckle*:p

It was probably a watermellon.. :D They're great in the summer time.. and hard to 'resist'. ;)

[jumbojava]

You believe that some just deserver abandonment and eternal torment? Where they never know love or compassion agian?

Selah: Did I say that JJ?
Yes.

By beliveing eternal torment exists you also believe some deserve it.

[Corrigan37]

It was probably a watermellon.. :D They're great in the summer time.. and hard to 'resist'. ;)

Strawberries.. could been a strawberry .. :)

[Corrigan37]

BTW.. Hi Rob :)

[wontgetfooledagain]

Strawberries.. could been a strawberry .. :)

Yep.. you're right .. Stawberries are even better. :)


(Hi Carrie.. :))

[Corrigan37]

Yep.. you're right .. Stawberries are even better. :)


(Hi Carrie.. :))

Have a nice day Rob :)

[wontgetfooledagain]

Have a nice day Rob :)


Regarding this apple thing... some people still haven't learned their lesson.. ;)


http://youtube.com/watch?v=I8B4tMhIsPo

[Corrigan37]

Regarding this apple thing... some people still haven't learned their lesson.. ;)


http://youtube.com/watch?v=I8B4tMhIsPo

Whatcha mean Rob???

[wontgetfooledagain]

Whatcha mean Rob???


Did you click on the link?

[Corrigan37]

Oh yea.. lol howd i miss that?

That was to cute! i love it!

[Corrigan37]

You like licorice Rob?

[Christ07]

The thing so many folks miss is the fact thatthe Bible DOES NOT TEACH THAT HELL EXISTS!!!!!!!!! HOW MNY TIMES MUST I EXPLAIN!1111 HELL DOES NOT BURN FOREVER. LETS USE OUR COMMON SENSE HERE FOR A MINUTE. IDS IT REALLY LOGICAL OR SMART TO ASSUME THERE IS A HELL THAT BURNS AND BURNS FOREVER AND EVER AND PEOPLE GO THERE IMMEDIATELY AFTER THEY DIE IF THEY ARE EVIL, AND THERE THEY BURN DAY IN AND DAY OUT AND NEVER DIE, ARE WE EVEN THAT POWERFUL? HECK NO!!!! THEN, AFTER A BILION LIGHT YEARS, WE'VE JUST BEGUN, A BILLION MORE LIGHT YEARS, STILL WE JUST BEGUN? IT'S NOT RATIONAL. IN ADDITION, DO YOU THINK HITLER SHOULD SERVE LESS TIME INHELL BECAUSE HE DIES EARLIER THN SOMEONE WHO JUST SIMPLY DID ENOUGH BAD TO GO TO HELL? THINK ABOU IT, HELL DOESN'T EXIST AND IS SIMPLY A DEVICE MADE BY MAN TOS CARE PEOPLE INTO BEING GOOD AND GOING TO CHURCH.

[Corrigan37]

it does in my bible.. teach a hell exists..

[Discerner]

it does in my bible.. teach a hell exists..

Where in the Bible does it say that a 'hell' exists now, and where is it?

Discerner

[wontgetfooledagain]

Where in the Bible does it say that a 'hell' exists now, and where is it?

Discerner

Where is Heaven?

[Corrigan37]

Where in the Bible does it say that a 'hell' exists now, and where is it?

Discerner

You know I was just thinking about you a bit ago Discerner..
I am going to be short in this because until monday when the cable comes and installs my cable correctly.. I am left to use this laptop and I don't know what happens.. I'm just typing.. and the next thing i know my cursor is moved and i'm typing in places i wasn't intending to type.. i seem to hit enter without actually touching the enter button.. I get frustrated..

Well I believe when people die they go to a holding area.. until the lake of fire.. Like the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.. Lazarus is in hades which is a holding place for the dead.

The bible isn't clear on when one goes to hell..but they do go..
Rev 20 12-15

I don't believe they sleep but are fully aware of their surroundings and condition..

[Corrigan37]

Where is Heaven?

sylvania...

*chuckle* :p

i'm teasing

[wontgetfooledagain]

sylvania...

*chuckle* :p

i'm teasing

If you're there Carrie... I'm sure it is Heaven... :)

[Corrigan37]

If you're there Carrie... I'm sure it is Heaven... :)

Well it's a toledo address.. sylvania shools.. it's on the line.. I didn't know this until i moved.. it's ok though.. :)

[Christ07]

it does in my bible.. teach a hell exists..

okay,the lake of fire, but when does the eternal torment of hellfire come into play? ha is certainly not biblical, as it says in the Bible he fire will consume, and DEVOUR them, and the fire that will be on earth will go out, and the lake of fire will be cast away. So Hell doesn't exist in the way people paint it to be, the lake of fire which consumes people does. Now in every Bible it often teaches the living know they are dying, but the dead know nothing, nor do they partake in anything under the sun again, they are in a thoughtless. dreamless sleep, awaiting the resurrection at the second coming. So ghosts can't be alive, and there is no spirit realms, or anything. Those shows you see on TV are setup to make money and get ratings.

[Corrigan37]

okay,the lake of fire, but when does the eternal torment of hellfire come into play? ha is certainly not biblical, as it says in the Bible he fire will consume, and DEVOUR them, and the fire that will be on earth will go out, and the lake of fire will be cast away. So Hell doesn't exist in the way people paint it to be, the lake of fire which consumes people does. Now in every Bible it often teaches the living know they are dying, but the dead know nothing, nor do they partake in anything under the sun again, they are in a thoughtless. dreamless sleep, awaiting the resurrection at the second coming. So ghosts can't be alive, and there is no spirit realms, or anything. Those shows you see on TV are setup to make money and get ratings.

Christ07,
The living know they are dying and the dead know nothing..

I see that as the dead being the unsaved who live as though they will never die or awnser to anyone..
When they die they have no reward or portion under the sun..

I don't worry about ghosts nor do i watch shows that contain ghosts..

being dead to me has nothing to do with ghosts.. do i believe people die and walk this earth as a ghost? no.. I don't believe the dead can leave the place they are in.. just as in the rich man and lazarus..(parable) neither could leave the place they were in..

:)

[Christ07]

Christ07,
The living know they are dying and the dead know nothing..

I see that as the dead being the unsaved who live as though they will never die or awnser to anyone..
When they die they have no reward or portion under the sun..

I don't worry about ghosts nor do i watch shows that contain ghosts..

being dead to me has nothing to do with ghosts.. do i believe people die and walk this earth as a ghost? no.. I don't believe the dead can leave the place they are in.. just as in the rich man and lazarus..(parable) neither could leave the place they were in..

:)


Okay, but if the dead know nothing, that means they don't know they are dead, but if they are dead and in a different realm, they know they are dead, which means they know something, you see, so that would contradict the bible! And many times it does mention the dead as sleeping with no thoughts or dreams, and they go back where they came, the ground, or grave. The Bible is persistant in saying this. Hope it helps.....

[Corrigan37]

No it dosen't contradict the bible..
Believing you sleep and are unaware of anything contradics the bible..

Rev 6
9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" 11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.

REV 6 is before the judgement so they should still be unconcious yes?

The Parbable of the Rich man shows no unconcious people..but only concious people

[Corrigan37]

2 Corinthians 5


6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

While we live in the body we are absent from the Lord.. When we die were are preseent with the Lord.. not sleeping. nor unconcious..

[kayky]

In response to the original post, i would just like to propose that what we are dealing with in both the Old and New Testaments are the interpretations of a specific people at a specific time in history. In the Old Testament, we are dealing with a tribal god--one, albeit more powerful, among many. It takes time to get from there to the idea of a single, universal God. If either testament is to have relevance for us today, we must learn to dig a little deeper than a literal, surface-level interpretation.

[selah]

In response to the original post, i would just like to propose that what we are dealing with in both the Old and New Testaments are the interpretations of a specific people at a specific time in history. In the Old Testament, we are dealing with a tribal god--one, albeit more powerful, among many. It takes time to get from there to the idea of a single, universal God. If either testament is to have relevance for us today, we must learn to dig a little deeper than a literal, surface-level interpretation.


God is still God

Duet 6:4 kjv

4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:


Selah

[kayky]

I'm not sure how your response relates to my post. Could you elaborate?

[kayky]

The verse you are quoting is called the "Shema," and it sums up Jewish theology--however, it took a great deal of time to get from Abraham's "El" to the YHWH of the Deuteronomist.

[Christ07]

No it dosen't contradict the bible..
Believing you sleep and are unaware of anything contradics the bible..

Rev 6
9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" 11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.

REV 6 is before the judgement so they should still be unconcious yes?

The Parbable of the Rich man shows no unconcious people..but only concious people

But the Bible also speaks of animals and trees talking. It's Symbolism, not literalism.If it's not, then the clairivoyants are right, why not ghosts that tell people God isn't real? The dragon with seven heads and ten horns are symbolically nations an kings, so why not in this instance? Especially when God continually in the Bible says death is but a sleep. Tell why friend, why couldn't Lazarrus recall what had happened? What good would a drop of water done him, if he's in a place of fervent heat?

[Corrigan37]

But the Bible also speaks of animals and trees talking. It's Symbolism, not literalism.If it's not, then the clairivoyants are right, why not ghosts that tell people God isn't real? The dragon with seven heads and ten horns are symbolically nations an kings, so why not in this instance? Especially when God continually in the Bible says death is but a sleep. Tell why friend, why couldn't Lazarrus recall what had happened? What good would a drop of water done him, if he's in a place of fervent heat?

Depends on which lazarus your talking about?
The lazarus in the parable was being comforted.. shows no loss of memory or any state of sleep..

The lazarus raised from the dead was never asked was he???? what had happened?

[Christ07]

No it dosen't contradict the bible..
Believing you sleep and are unaware of anything contradics the bible..

Rev 6
9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" 11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.

REV 6 is before the judgement so they should still be unconcious yes?

The Parbable of the Rich man shows no unconcious people..but only concious people


Plus, do you think the people of heaven would really want to be constantly looking down on the horrors of the world of the dead, and our world? What kind of afterlife would that be? And again, why would someone be in that world longer than someone simply because they did evil and was born before someone worse, like Hitler or Geoffrey Dammer?

[Christ07]

Depends on which lazarus your talking about?
The lazarus in the parable was being comforted.. shows no loss of memory or any state of sleep..

The lazarus raised from the dead was never asked was he???? what had happened?

No... but don't you figure he'd talk bout it and it'd be in the Bible? In addition, the souls in Hell, or he wold of the dead are already there, so why would God recall them out of that world to kill and judge them again at the judgement?

[Corrigan37]

No... but don't you figure he'd talk bout it and it'd be in the Bible? In addition, the souls in Hell, or he wold of the dead are already there, so why would God recall them out of that world to kill and judge them again at the judgement?

Jesus spoke of death in the parable..

Now see just because a senario isn't in the bible you can't exclude it... or imagine what should of been .. That's not fair..
You can't base a belief off of that..

:)

[Christ07]

Jesus spoke of death in the parable..

Now see just because a senario isn't in the bible you can't exclude it... or imagine what should of been .. That's not fair..
You can't base a belief off of that..

:)

Yes, point taken, but I'm sure it was symbolism. Could you answer my second question in that post?

[Christ07]

Jesus spoke of death in the parable..

Now see just because a senario isn't in the bible you can't exclude it... or imagine what should of been .. That's not fair..
You can't base a belief off of that..

:)

So something that important you really believe would not be added to the Bible???:rolleyes:

[Christ07]

No it dosen't contradict the bible..
Believing you sleep and are unaware of anything contradics the bible..

Rev 6
9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" 11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.

REV 6 is before the judgement so they should still be unconcious yes?

The Parbable of the Rich man shows no unconcious people..but only concious people

But the Bible also speaks of animals and trees talking. It's Symbolism, not literalism.If it's not, then the clairivoyants are right, why not ghosts that tell people God isn't real? The dragon with seven heads and ten horns are symbolically nations an kings, so why not in this instance? Especially when God continually in the Bible says death is but a sleep. Tell why friend, why couldn't Lazarrus recall what had happened? What good would a drop of water done him, if he's in a place of fervent heat?

[Corrigan37]

So something that important you really believe would not be added to the Bible???:rolleyes:

Well then one can say this..
Why didn't Jesus tell his disciples there are so such thing as ghosts? Shouldn't that of been important enough also?

Matthew 14
25And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea.

26And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.
27But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid. 28And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.


And




Luke 24
36And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

37But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

:)

But he didn't

[Christ07]

Well by spirit he could have meant angel or demon.

[Corrigan37]

But the Bible also speaks of animals and trees talking. It's Symbolism, not literalism.If it's not, then the clairivoyants are right, why not ghosts that tell people God isn't real? The dragon with seven heads and ten horns are symbolically nations an kings, so why not in this instance? Especially when God continually in the Bible says death is but a sleep. Tell why friend, why couldn't Lazarrus recall what had happened? What good would a drop of water done him, if he's in a place of fervent heat?

Well it was the rich man who was in torment.. Why ask for a drop of water to cool his tongue?
Why wouldn't he want relief from his pain..

Sleep can also be seen as a hyperbole..

The Word sleep or slept are used interchangably with death or dead..

The same as we call passing on..
some say passed away or passed on.. some say deceased..

do a search on how slept, sleep, and death or died are used in the bible..

When one died called "slept" it is mainly used in Kings and Chronicles..
otherwise it's referred to as died..

1 Corinthians 15:3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=15&verse=3&version=9&context=verse)
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Did Christ sleep for our sins? or did he go to hell to preach to the spirits in prison?

[Christ07]

1. What good would a drop of water done him, if he's in a place of fervent heat?

2.In addition, the souls in Hell, or he wold of the dead are already there, so why would God recall them out of that world to kill and judge them again at the judgement?

3.Plus, do you think the people of heaven would really want to be constantly looking down on the horrors of the world of the dead, and our world? What kind of afterlife would that be? And again, why would someone be in that world longer than someone simply because they did evil and was born before someone worse, like Hitler or Geoffrey Dammer?

[Christ07]

[QUOTE=Corrigan37;450501]Well it was the rich man who was in torment.. Why ask for a drop of water to cool his tongue?
Why wouldn't he want relief from his pain..
ME: How can a drop of water relieve his pain???:confused:

Sleep can also be seen as a hyperbole..

ME: Like hyperbolic time chamber?

The Word sleep or slept are used interchangably with death or dead..

ME: My point exactly. :)

The same as we call passing on..
some say passed away or passed on.. some say deceased..

do a search on how slept, sleep, and death or died are used in the bible..

When one died called "slept" it is mainly used in Kings and Chronicles..
otherwise it's referred to as died..

ME: Which means, they are not conscious.When we are asleep, we are unconscious, when we die, it's like that, with no thought or dreams. We go back to the dirt, and the soul, which gave gave us, which is the breath of life, or breath we have, air, goes back to God. Good or bad, which leaves no room for a literl world of the dead where souls are alive....

1 Corinthians 15:3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=15&verse=3&version=9&context=verse)
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Did Christ sleep for our sins? or did he go to hell to preach to the spirits in prison?

ME: I know this pastor that thinks Jesus didn't rise until sunday, because on Saturay, the Sabbath, is for rest, and no work is to be done.:) So.... leaves no room for preaching or descending to hell, as no work is to be done on that day.

[Corrigan37]

1. What good would a drop of water done him, if he's in a place of fervent heat?

2.In addition, the souls in Hell, or he wold of the dead are already there, so why would God recall them out of that world to kill and judge them again at the judgement?

3.Plus, do you think the people of heaven would really want to be constantly looking down on the horrors of the world of the dead, and our world? What kind of afterlife would that be? And again, why would someone be in that world longer than someone simply because they did evil and was born before someone worse, like Hitler or Geoffrey Dammer?

1. Imagine yourself very thirsty.. you'd beg for even a drop of water in your mouth..

2. They are in a place awaiting judgement..

3. Who said they do? it's not biblical that they have any worries of this world.. Old things have passed away.. The only person worrying was the rich man who became scared for his brothers.. he didn't want them to go to the dreadful place he was in.. :)
Revelation 21:4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=21&verse=4&version=9&context=verse)
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Revelation 7:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=7&verse=17&version=9&context=verse)
For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

[Corrigan37]

At the time of Jesus's death.. it was a special sabbath not a regular Sabbath..

[Christ07]

[QUOTE=Corrigan37;450511]1. Imagine yourself very thirsty.. you'd beg for even a drop of water in your mouth..

ME: No, I'd beg for a nice cold Pepesi!!!;)

2. They are in a place awaiting judgement..

ME:What's the point if all they are dong is awaiting judgement, and shouldn't this life be the judgement??

3. Who said they do? it's not biblical that they have any worries of this world.. Old things have passed away.. The only person worrying was the rich man who became scared for his brothers.. he didn't want them to go to the dreadful place he was in.. :)

ME: But they would if they saw this world, as angels do... and, why would God send somebody to a dreadful place, why not just kill them?

Revelation 21:4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=21&verse=4&version=9&context=verse)
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

ME: Yes, this is not now, it is after sin is gone, and the jugdement is passed, so is this world as we know it...but not now.

Revelation 7:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=7&verse=17&version=9&context=verse)
For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

ME: Again, this is in the future.

[Christ07]

At the time of Jesus's death.. it was a special sabbath not a regular Sabbath..

Either way I don't think it changes the rules...

[Corrigan37]

[quote=Corrigan37;450511]1. Imagine yourself very thirsty.. you'd beg for even a drop of water in your mouth..

ME: No, I'd beg for a nice cold Pepesi!!!;)

2. They are in a place awaiting judgement..

ME:What's the point if all they are dong is awaiting judgement, and shouldn't this life be the judgement??

3. Who said they do? it's not biblical that they have any worries of this world.. Old things have passed away.. The only person worrying was the rich man who became scared for his brothers.. he didn't want them to go to the dreadful place he was in.. :)

ME: But they would if they saw this world, as angels do... and, why would God send somebody to a dreadful place, why not just kill them?

Revelation 21:4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=21&verse=4&version=9&context=verse)
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

ME: Yes, this is not now, it is after sin is gone, and the jugdement is passed, so is this world as we know it...but not now.

Revelation 7:17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=7&verse=17&version=9&context=verse)
For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

ME: Again, this is in the future.

2. No this isn't the judgement..

3. Why not just kill them?
I think my discernment thinks God wants them to know who he is.. :)

Rev 7 is not the future..
Also it harmonizes with Lazarus being comforted in the parable..

[Corrigan37]

Jesus healed on the sabbath.. so i'm sure he can rise from the dead on that day as well..

[Christ07]

2. No this isn't the judgement..

ME: I'm sure it is... in the book of revelation, everyone is to give an account for heir life and own up to what they did and either be rewarded, or punished, according to their works, after the 1,00 years with Christ.

3. Why not just kill them?
I think my discernment thinks God wants them to know who he is..

ME:But wouldn't they know who he is if they are in a dreadful spirit realm?Then why Hold them until then??? They'll know who he is regardless at the resurrection, and final Judgement of lives and souls.

[Christ07]

Jesus healed on the sabbath.. so i'm sure he can rise from the dead on that day as well..

But he didn't rise until sunday!...Sorry to be so contradictory...But I have to question things that are opposite of what I believe...;)

[Corrigan37]

But he didn't rise until sunday!...Sorry to be so contradictory...But I have to question things that are opposite of what I believe...;)

Some say he was buried on a wednesday.. some say Friday..Noone went to the sepulchre until sunday.. So how can you be sure?
It's not important what day he rose again is it? If it were of great importance to know exactly what day it happened God would have told us yes?

[Christ07]

Because the Bible strictly says friday he died, and on sunday he rose again. Why listen to what man has to say????

[wontgetfooledagain]

Because the Bible strictly says friday he died, and on sunday he rose again. Why listen to what man has to say????

Umm David... who wrote the Bible? Answer: Men.

[Christ07]

Umm David... who wrote the Bible? Answer: Men.

Guided by god.;) Outside theories are not.:p

[Corrigan37]

Because the Bible strictly says friday he died, and on sunday he rose again. Why listen to what man has to say????

Where does it specifically say Friday?

[kayky]

How do you know that the men who wrote the Bible were "guided" by God? What does that mean exactly?

[Christ07]

How do you know that the men who wrote the Bible were "guided" by God? What does that mean exactly?

Because the Bible says.;) Flawless logic!!!!!!!:D:cool:

[Christ07]

Where does it specifically say Friday?

Next to the verse were is says hell exists.:p

[Corrigan37]

Next to the verse were is says hell exists.:p

OK! just checkin .. lol ;)

[Christ07]

Where does it specifically say Friday?

The next day was a sabbath. If Saturday was the last day then, friday was the day before, which is the day he died. he was buried on Sataurday, and rose on the first day of the week, the third day in that prophecy, Sunday, which is now, as defined by us, and changed by the mayans or whoever, the last day of the week. Since the old calendars point to Saturday as the day of rest, since it used to be what is sunday today, it was friday, as we currently define it as, that he was killed. LOGIC 101.;)

[Corrigan37]

ahhhh but ..

John 19 says..
31Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jews did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.

So he could have been buried Wed..

being buried on Friday dosen't give him the 3 days that he claimed.. nor that most christians profess to..

[Christ07]

ahhhh but ..

John 19 says..
31Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jews did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.

So he could have been buried Wed..

being buried on Friday dosen't give him the 3 days that he claimed.. nor that most christians profess to..

he died on friday I said, and was buried Saturday, and rose on sunday, that is buliding his temple back ( his body, raising back to life, etc...)in exactly three days!!;)

[kayky]

David...the authors of the Bible were guided by God because the Bible says so? This is "flawless logic"??? Ever heard of circular reasoning?

[Christ07]

David...the authors of the Bible were guided by God because the Bible says so? This is "flawless logic"??? Ever heard of circular reasoning?

No, actually with my own brain. The Bible is extremely agreeing, and persistant with agreeing on many scriptures, and the fact than many scriptures take two or more to make sense, like a jigsaw puzzle, with an intelligent mind behind it. You don't think God guided them in writing the bible???

[kayky]

No matter how much brain-power you put into it, no book is true simply because it says so. Did God "guide" the writers of the Bible? No. Did the writers of the Bible have an authentic experience of God? Yes.

[Christ07]

If they had the experience of God, that means God was guiding them.

[Christ07]

I don't know of anyone ever authentically experiencing God for the good, without him guiding them.

[Corrigan37]

he died on friday I said, and was buried Saturday, and rose on sunday, that is buliding his temple back ( his body, raising back to life, etc...)in exactly three days!!;)

The day of preparation is before the sabbath so Jesus could not of been buried on the sabbath..


42Because it was the Jewish day of Preparation and since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.

[Corrigan37]

I believe the scriptures and the writers were guided by God ..

[Christ07]

The day of preparation is before the sabbath so Jesus could not of been buried on the sabbath..


42Because it was the Jewish day of Preparation and since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.

Jesus knew of his death, so the preparation was on the day before he died...he died before the Sabbath....the day before.....and rose the day after the Sabbath....

[Christ07]

I believe the scriptures and the writers were guided by God ..

Thank God!!!!!!:D

[Corrigan37]

Jesus knew of his death, so the preparation was on the day before he died...he died before the Sabbath....the day before.....and rose the day after the Sabbath....

*Lost look *
What bible you reading from? lol

[kayky]

If they had the experience of God, that means God was guiding them.

It doesn't mean that at all. Their experience of God may have prompted them to express that experience in writing, but that's where God's influence ends. God had no control over the writing itself--which is certainly a reflection of the personal viewpoints of the writers themselves.

[Corrigan37]

Thank God!!!!!!:D

We need to note ..,
That's 1 thing we agree on.. :)

[Christ07]

*Lost look *
What bible you reading from? lol

The Good news bible...and it has Good news in it!

[Christ07]

We need to note ..,
That's 1 thing we agree on.. :)

We've agreed on other things..... befoooore.....

[Christ07]

It doesn't mean that at all. Their experience of God may have prompted them to express that experience in writing, but that's where God's influence ends. God had no control over the writing itself--which is certainly a reflection of the personal viewpoints of the writers themselves.

When God guides anyone, does he have control over what you do? Not really, you can always suddenly decide to shoot and kill someone. You have to be submissive and obedient, and God can guide you through anything, even writing the Bible.

[Corrigan37]

The Good news bible...and it has Good news in it!

lol :p .................................................. .....

[Beowulf2008]

ahhhh but ..

John 19 says..
31Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jews did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.

So he could have been buried Wed..

being buried on Friday dosen't give him the 3 days that he claimed.. nor that most christians profess to..

It was a special Sabbath because it was during Passover. In Jewish time they reckoned from sundown to sundown...so before sundown on Friday was day one, Saturday was day too, and anytime after sunset on Saturday was day three. It was the "third day" not 72 hours.

As far as I know the part about Him descending into hell is only in a creed and not in the Bible.

[Christ07]

It was a special Sabbath because it was during Passover. In Jewish time they reckoned from sundown to sundown...so before sundown on Friday was day one, Saturday was day too, and anytime after sunset on Saturday was day three. It was the "third day" not 72 hours.

As far as I know the part about Him descending into hell is only in a creed and not in the Bible.

And a Parable and symbolism, right?

[kayky]

When God guides anyone, does he have control over what you do? Not really, you can always suddenly decide to shoot and kill someone. You have to be submissive and obedient, and God can guide you through anything, even writing the Bible.

So--when you say God "guided" the writers--what do you mean exactly? Does it mean that the Bible contains what God wanted it to contain? Is it inerrant?

[Beowulf2008]

And a Parable and symbolism, right?

I am not sure. The Lazarus and the rich man story you guys were discussing earlier certainly is.

[Beowulf2008]

So--when you say God "guided" the writers--what do you mean exactly? Does it mean that the Bible contains what God wanted it to contain? Is it inerrant?

That would be exactly what it means. Doesn't mean everything is literal...but it does mean what God wanted written got written.

[Christ07]

So--when you say God "guided" the writers--what do you mean exactly? Does it mean that the Bible contains what God wanted it to contain? Is it inerrant?

I mean God was guiding their lives, what they saw, what they experienced, and made sure the important things were put in, Solomon's wisdom, examples of what to, and what not to do, the prophecies that came to pass, etc.....even told them what to write specifically and what to say (in their own words, of course) and even the truth of his judgement of what he did to sinners and how he will judge them who do iniquity, as honest as he is, which is pretty honest, according to the bible.

[Christ07]

That would be exactly what it means. Doesn't mean everything is literal...but it does mean what God wanted written got written.

Precisely.

[Christ07]

I am not sure. The Lazarus and the rich man story you guys were discussing earlier certainly is.

Exactly, AMEN! Haleluia! Haaaaleluia...halelu..... That's what i was referring to, that and Jesus descent into hell. I think jesus descent to Hell is symbolism of Jesus coming to earth, a planet that can much be like hell at times, to preach to us spiritually hungry folk and save us from sin.

[kayky]

The viewpoint here of both David and Beowulf are problematic. The God of the Old Testament, for example, often promotes evil acts. If he is a tribal god protecting his favorite tribe, this would make perfect sense. But God is universal, and my experience of God has always been one of perfect love. The Bible is too imperfect to have had so much divine intervention.

[Christ07]

The viewpoint here of both David and Beowulf are problematic. The God of the Old Testament, for example, often promotes evil acts. If he is a tribal god protecting his favorite tribe, this would make perfect sense. But God is universal, and my experience of God has always been one of perfect love. The Bible is too imperfect to have had so much divine intervention.

He's a tribal God, in a sense.... he's universal, but tribal in the sense he favors non-sinners and works to get people out of sin.......A universal God.....to those who repent.. those who don't are the one who are in sin the worst...yet they simply cannot see it because darkness veils their eyes.......

[kayky]

This does not respond to the issue of a divinely inspired--yet so imperfect--Bible.

[Christ07]

This does not respond to the issue of a divinely inspired--yet so imperfect--Bible.

Yes it does...he will once and for ll get rid of evil, and even does so today. Remember...Many are unchangeable...and stubborn.....and simply don't give a great crispy cra......

[Beowulf2008]

The viewpoint here of both David and Beowulf are problematic. The God of the Old Testament, for example, often promotes evil acts. If he is a tribal god protecting his favorite tribe, this would make perfect sense. But God is universal, and my experience of God has always been one of perfect love. The Bible is too imperfect to have had so much divine intervention.

God chose the Hebrews to be his people. The ancient Middle East was not like the Summer Camp, it was a rough neighborhood, and one way people showed their success was military conquest. (Like Egypt, Asyrria, Persia, Babylon, Greece, and Rome to come). You might not like that God chose one group to win over the other, but that was (and is) the way of the world. The Isrealites ultimately rebelled, and thus God ultimately sent Jesus to make it right once and for all.

[Corrigan37]

Exactly, AMEN! Haleluia! Haaaaleluia...halelu..... That's what i was referring to, that and Jesus descent into hell. I think jesus descent to Hell is symbolism of Jesus coming to earth, a planet that can much be like hell at times, to preach to us spiritually hungry folk and save us from sin.

You doing drugs again David? what the heck???? lol i'm teasing you.. lol

I do think this is a far off, way out there interpetation..

[Christ07]

You doing drugs again David? what the heck???? lol i'm teasing you.. lol

I do think this is a far off, way out there interpetation..

No, I think literlism of Jesus talking to lazzarus from hell is way off out their coocoo in the loocoo interpretation.:p

[Corrigan37]

No, I think literlism of Jesus talking to lazzarus from hell is way off out their coocoo in the loocoo interpretation.:p

Lazarus wasn't in hell...

The rich man was..

you need to get on the coocoo in the loocoo bus David :) lol

[Christ07]

Lazarus wasn't in hell...

The rich man was..

you need to get on the coocoo in the loocoo bus David :) lol

Either way, it was a PARABLE!!!!!! Sorry ta say.:rolleyes:

[Corrigan37]

Either way, it was a PARABLE!!!!!! Sorry ta say.:rolleyes:

an example.. :)

[Christ07]

an example.. :)

A Parable!

[Christ07]

A Parable I Say!

[Corrigan37]

I just went to you tube david..
The munchkin is mine.. :) lol

They do ok..

[Christ07]

Lazarus wasn't in hell...

The rich man was..

you need to get on the coocoo in the loocoo bus David :) lol

Any way excuse that, i've been up aaaalll night, and am tired....need sleep........:eek:
Closest thing to a yawn.

[Christ07]

I just went to you tube david..
The munchkin is mine.. :) lol

They do ok..

yeah they ain't too bad. ( Yawn) Good afternoon...night.;)

[jumbojava]

I believe the scriptures and the writers were guided by God ..
Why would god 'guide' someone to write about god killing people he didnt like?

God: "You be sure and tell them that if they dont believe this that I'm going to kick their ass all the way to hell and back..."

[Christ07]

To use evil as an example?

[Christ07]

The viewpoint here of both David and Beowulf are problematic. The God of the Old Testament, for example, often promotes evil acts. If he is a tribal god protecting his favorite tribe, this would make perfect sense. But God is universal, and my experience of God has always been one of perfect love. The Bible is too imperfect to have had so much divine intervention.

Going back to this.. well, think about it. God didn't have his people ever do anything they didn't HAVE to do, and they killed in war. As protection and survival. And when he punished people it was bad, but he judged his saints more harshly, but favors them.... Because when one has experienced God, then turns away, I agree that they should get stricter punishment... It makes sense, but even the OT God, was patient, giving many warnings and allowing people to repent

[jumbojava]

Why would god 'guide' someone to write about god killing people he didnt like?

God: "You be sure and tell them that if they dont believe this that I'm going to kick their ass all the way to hell and back..."

To use evil as an example?
That makes no sense......

[Christ07]

That makes no sense......

As an example of what he does with evil and sin, gives it back to them.... he also illustrates what he does with people who sin and repent, openly takes them in.....

[jumbojava]

As an example of what he does with evil and sin, gives it back to them.... he also illustrates what he does with people who sin and repent, openly takes them in.....
IOW's if you dont do what he wants he's gonna kill you.

Nice.

[Christ07]

Only if you do ravenous evil....

[jumbojava]

Only if you do ravenous evil....
What evil were infants and babes in wombs guity of?

[Christ07]

Nothing happened to them. Do you have a particular experience in mind?

[jumbojava]

Nothing happened to them. Do you have a particular experience in mind?
How about the Egyptian firstborns.

[Christ07]

The Egyptian killed the Israelite firstborns first, and did worse things to the survivors, or rather...slaves. So I don't care an ounce.

[jumbojava]

The Egyptian killed the Israelite firstborns first, and did worse things to the survivors, or rather...slaves.
Sounds like revenge to me.


So I don't care an ounce.
You dont care that your god kills babies in revenge?

[Christ07]

Sounds like revenge to me.



You dont care that your god kills babies in revenge?

Not if they kill babies first. Nope. Why should I? Does it make me a worse person if I don't care? So what? I don't it makes me a worse person. just like I don't care if a murder kills someone and god comes down and kills him, instead of letting authorities handle it. And it's more like making an example out of them and showing his people and enemies his power, and love of his people, who is anyone who calls out to him honestly.

[jumbojava]

Not if they kill babies first. Nope. Why should I? Does it make me a worse person if I don't care? So what? I don't it makes me a worse person. just like I don't care if a murder kills someone and god comes down and kills him, instead of letting authorities handle it. And it's more like making an example out of them and showing his people and enemies his power, and love of his people, who is anyone who calls out to him honestly.
I think that is the saddest post I've ever read....

[Christ07]

I think that is the saddest post I've ever read....

Oh well, people shouldn't just walk away scott free from doing evil. An eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, etc..... was a good rule for those times. Jesus example is even better for these times. When people don't even they to live up to his teachings but rather whine is what is sad to me. Don't even try, would rather spend all their time on this website complaining......

[Christ07]

And no, i am not just categorizing this as just Christian, any one who just tries to live up to the teachings that jesus placed before us.

[jumbojava]

Oh well, people shouldn't just walk away scott free from doing evil. An eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, etc..... was a good rule for those times.
What evil are babies capable of? No, 07, killing infants and babes in the womb was nothing but revenge. I find your appearent callousness to such atrocities chilling and distrubing..


Jesus example is even better for these times. When people don't even they to live up to his teachings but rather whine is what is sad to me. Don't even try, would rather spend all their time on this website complaining......
I'm not a Christian for I find your god a barbaric and sadistic megalomaniac where the worship of this... creature... is also distubing for it often leads to a complete lack of compassion.

[kayky]

Wasn't it Jesus who said that, rather than an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, we should love our enemies and pray for those who wish us harm?

[wontgetfooledagain]

Not if they kill babies first. Nope. Why should I? Does it make me a worse person if I don't care? So what? I don't it makes me a worse person. just like I don't care if a murder kills someone and god comes down and kills him, instead of letting authorities handle it. And it's more like making an example out of them and showing his people and enemies his power, and love of his people, who is anyone who calls out to him honestly.

Once again you are admitting that your God DOES kill babies David. Tell me.. do you think it's right to 'make an example' out of these babies? What did they do wrong? Isn't your God above 'revenge killing'?

Rob

[jumbojava]

Wasn't it Jesus who said that, rather than an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, we should love our enemies and pray for those who wish us harm?
He's also promised to come back and finish what his father started and rid the world of all non-believers once and for all.

Seems the nut didnt fall far from the tree.......

[kayky]

I think there's a difference between Truth, and man's interpretation of it. That's the dilemma of taking a book at face value as the ultimate truth written in stone. The Bible must be approached with a discerning spirit--not to mention common sense.

[jumbojava]

I think there's a difference between Truth, and man's interpretation of it. That's the dilemma of taking a book at face value as the ultimate truth written in stone.
Hence why I asked why would god 'inspire' someone to write about killing for revenge.


The Bible must be approached with a discerning spirit--not to mention common sense.
My common sense says its not of god at all.

[Beowulf2008]

How about the Egyptian firstborns.

How about Dresden? How about Hiroshima? God gave Pharoh 10 chances...then he dropped the a-bomb. The Hebrews were fighting for their freedom.

[kayky]

The Bible is what it is--the beauty and the gore. But you have to place it in the context in which it was written. It is a very human book to be sure--but it is an attempt to express humanity's experience of God--often filtered through a very primitive worldview. But the reality of God can be encountered there if you're willing to learn how to look.

[wontgetfooledagain]

How about Dresden? How about Hiroshima? God gave Pharoh 10 chances...then he dropped the a-bomb. The Hebrews were fighting for their freedom.

Yes... and by all means, killing innocent babies is worth it... to get that freedom. :rolleyes:

Rob

[jumbojava]

The Bible is what it is--the beauty and the gore. But you have to place it in the context in which it was written. It is a very human book to be sure--but it is an attempt to express humanity's experience of God--often filtered through a very primitive worldview. But the reality of God can be encountered there if you're willing to learn how to look.
I see very little of god in the bible, if at all. if you remove all the death and threats of death, there isnt much left. Hence why I dont think god 'inpsired' any of it.

[Christ07]

Once again you are admitting that your God DOES kill babies David. Tell me.. do you think it's right to 'make an example' out of these babies? What did they do wrong? Isn't your God above 'revenge killing'?

Rob

Yes, after the Egyptians killed all the Israelite first born, not in just some disaster where the parents didn't kill somebodies baby first... You have it mixed up. He would have never got revenge had they not persisted on, killing more Israelites, keeping them as slaves, and challenging God's magic, and AAron and Moses.

[Christ07]

Yes... and by all means, killing innocent babies is worth it... to get that freedom. :rolleyes:

Rob

Hey God did it...he had the right, authority, it was a war.....God used the method, give them what they give. A great method in battle.

[jumbojava]

Yes... and by all means, killing innocent babies is worth it... to get that freedom.
Or worshipers.

Why else all the blood and death and threats of death from god?

[Beowulf2008]

Yes... and by all means, killing innocent babies is worth it... to get that freedom. :rolleyes:

Rob

Civilians always suffer for the bad actions of their leaders. It has always been thus....

[jumbojava]

Hey God did it...he had the right, authority, it was a war.....God used the method, give them what they give. A great method in battle.
So much for a 'loving' and 'compassionate' god....

[wontgetfooledagain]

The Bible is what it is--the beauty and the gore. But you have to place it in the context in which it was written. It is a very human book to be sure--but it is an attempt to express humanity's experience of God--often filtered through a very primitive worldview.


Yes, I do agree. The bible has man's fingerprints all over it. The writers of the bible were doing their best to try and explain this God concept. Some ideas are wonderful... others are horrific. But considering the source, that is to be expected.


But the reality of God can be encountered there if you're willing to learn how to look.I don't agree with you at all there. There is no 'reality' of God imo. We have to remember that 'God' is a concept that man has created... after all, what else could it be? Man has invented gods throughout history for various reasons... To explain the unknown, to give us hope, to deal with our fear of death... etc.. But it is only a concept. It doesn't' mean there isn't a God.. but just because we have invented this concept.. it does not make it a reality. Sure the 'reality' of God seems very real to many people.. but the concept of God, as far as we know at this point, only exists in the minds of humans and nowhere else.

Rob

[Christ07]

So much for a 'loving' and 'compassionate' god....

Not on enemies in war, NO! He gives enough warnings, and in the end, all words fail. He's compassionate to the point he gets to that he's told people a million times, still the same thing goes through their mind out of yes, STUBBORN NESS!

[Corrigan37]

How about Dresden? How about Hiroshima? God gave Pharoh 10 chances...then he dropped the a-bomb. The Hebrews were fighting for their freedom.

I have to disagree with that.. God hardened pharoh's heart yes?

Romans 9

17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

v15 says this.

15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.


Exodus 4
21And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

[wontgetfooledagain]

Civilians always suffer for the bad actions of their leaders. It has always been thus....


Yes... those innocent babies are just 'collateral damage' as far as your God is concerned. :rolleyes: Murder is murder... and it is wrong whether a man does it.. or a God does it.

[jumbojava]

Civilians always suffer for the bad actions of their leaders. It has always been thus....
Seems the biblegod is not only capable of bad actions but is also a bad leader.

[Corrigan37]

Well i have to wonder..

Where were the egyptian gods at to protect the babies?
couldn't their gods save them?
or didn't their gods care ?

[Corrigan37]

I think i want some bacon n eggs and toast..
:)

[Beowulf2008]

Well i have to wonder..

Where were the egyptian gods at to protect the babies?
couldn't their gods save them?
or didn't their gods care ?

Good point!

[kayky]

I see very little of god in the bible, if at all. if you remove all the death and threats of death, there isnt much left. Hence why I dont think god 'inpsired' any of it.

How much of the Bible have you actually read?

[Corrigan37]

Was the God of Israel more powerful than the gods of Egypt?

[wontgetfooledagain]

Good point!

Yeah... I suppose God had to flex his muscle and prove that he is the strongest god in the neighborhood. And what better way to do that than to kill innocent babies. :rolleyes:

[Corrigan37]

It seems any god that allows you to be hurt or killed would be a bad leader and a weak god.. according to your views..

so why worship that god either then if that's the road we need to go down..

[Corrigan37]

He is the only God in the neighborhood.. :) Rob

[kayky]

[QUOTE=wontgetfooledagain;455852]
I don't agree with you at all there. There is no 'reality' of God imo. We have to remember that 'God' is a concept that man has created... after all, what else could it be? Man has invented gods throughout history for various reasons... To explain the unknown, to give us hope, to deal with our fear of death... etc.. But it is only a concept. It doesn't' mean there isn't a God.. but just because we have invented this concept.. it does not make it a reality. Sure the 'reality' of God seems very real to many people.. but the concept of God, as far as we know at this point, only exists in the minds of humans and nowhere else./QUOTE]


To experience the reality of God you must be willing to give up all concepts about God. Otherwise, you are correct. You are dealing with human concepts. The Buddhists call this "beginner's mind." Jesus would have said to approach God as a little child. A small child encounters the world with no preconceptions and finds delight in its beauty and mystery.

[wontgetfooledagain]

It seems any god that allows you to be hurt or killed would be a bad leader and a weak god.. according to your views..

so why worship that god either then if that's the road we need to go down..

Of course my view on this Carrie.. would be ... don't worship any of these Gods... because they don't exist. :D

[Corrigan37]

[quote=wontgetfooledagain;455852]
I don't agree with you at all there. There is no 'reality' of God imo. We have to remember that 'God' is a concept that man has created... after all, what else could it be? Man has invented gods throughout history for various reasons... To explain the unknown, to give us hope, to deal with our fear of death... etc.. But it is only a concept. It doesn't' mean there isn't a God.. but just because we have invented this concept.. it does not make it a reality. Sure the 'reality' of God seems very real to many people.. but the concept of God, as far as we know at this point, only exists in the minds of humans and nowhere else./QUOTE]


To experience the reality of God you must be willing to give up all concepts about God. Otherwise, you are correct. You are dealing with human concepts. The Buddhists call this "beginner's mind." Jesus would have said to approach God as a little child. A small child encounters the world with no preconceptions and finds delight in its beauty and mystery.

I don't mix other faiths in with christianty..
buddhists don't believe in God do they?
Why would you study a religion and bring it into christianty when it dosen't believe in God?

[Corrigan37]

Of course my view on this Carrie.. would be ... don't worship any of these Gods... because they don't exist. :D

Yes I know how you feel Rob :)

[kayky]

[quote=kayky;455909]

I don't mix other faiths in with christianty..
buddhists don't believe in God do they?
Why would you study a religion and bring it into christianty when it dosen't believe in God?

My answer is quite simple. Christianity does not have a corner on the truth. There is a lot to be gained by studying the wisdom found in other religions. Christianity speaks of God--Buddhists speak of Nirvana. Is there really any difference?

[Corrigan37]

Good point!

Thank You :)

[Corrigan37]

[quote=Corrigan37;455913]

My answer is quite simple. Christianity does not have a corner on the truth. There is a lot to be gained by studying the wisdom found in other religions. Christianity speaks of God--Buddhists speak of Nirvana. Is there really any difference?

Yes there is a difference..

We were't called to put ourselves in a place of nirvana..

All God wants you to do is believe and follow him.. pray and meditate (think and ponder) his word.. keep it in your heart and mind.. and live by it..

If you follow God and seek him and his word with all your heart and soul you will find God..
going into all these creepy exersises to find God is ridiculous.. or to be good.. or whatever nirvana is for.. it's scarey..and as a christian you shouldn't do it..

[Corrigan37]

[quote=Corrigan37;455913]

My answer is quite simple. Christianity does not have a corner on the truth. There is a lot to be gained by studying the wisdom found in other religions. Christianity speaks of God--Buddhists speak of Nirvana. Is there really any difference?

What's Nirvana for? can't be to find God because they don't believe in God do they?

[kayky]

[quote=kayky;455923]

Yes there is a difference..

We were't called to put ourselves in a place of nirvana..

All God wants you to do is believe and follow him.. pray and meditate (think and ponder) his word.. keep it in your heart and mind.. and live by it..

If you follow God and seek him and his word with all your heart and soul you will find God..
going into all these creepy exersises to find God is ridiculous.. or to be good.. or whatever nirvana is for.. it's scarey..and as a christian you shouldn't do it..

Do you always find ideas from other cultures "creepy" and "scary"? Does it make sense to refer to things you obviously have no knowledge of as "ridiculous"? Are you really in a position to tell another person (Christian or not) what they should or should not do? "Nirvana" simply means union with ultimate reality. How is that different from the union with God that Christians seek?

[Corrigan37]

I take that back Rob..

I don't know how you feel.. but i kinda know how you see things..

:)

[kayky]

[quote=kayky;455923]

What's Nirvana for? can't be to find God because they don't believe in God do they?

How do you define "God"?

[wontgetfooledagain]

[quote=kayky;455923]

What's Nirvana for? can't be to find God because they don't believe in God do they?


I'm not really sure...but they certainly do not believe in any type of God that is similar to the Jewish/Christian/Muslim version.

But as for Nirvana... I was a big fan of them.. ;)

http://ortizrenan.googlepages.com/nirvana.jpg

[Corrigan37]

[quote=Corrigan37;455935]

Do you always find ideas from other cultures "creepy" and "scary"? Does it make sense to refer to things you obviously have no knowledge of as "ridiculous"? Are you really in a position to tell another person (Christian or not) what they should or should not do? "Nirvana" simply means union with ultimate reality. How is that different from the union with God that Christians seek?


What the ultimate reality since there is no God?

reaching a trance like state is creepy yes.. to me.. not creepy but scarey.. i wouldn't want to do it

[Corrigan37]

[quote=Corrigan37;455944]

How do you define "God"?

God is my Father in heaven..

I don't define him..

[Corrigan37]

i have to go dry my hair .. i'll be back in a few

[kayky]

[quote=kayky;455954]


What the ultimate reality since there is no God?

reaching a trance like state is creepy yes.. to me.. not creepy but scarey.. i wouldn't want to do it


"God" and "Nirvana" are just words. They both point to the same reality. I don't even know what you mean by a "trance-like state." It seems to me that union with ultimate reality would make you more awake and more alive than ever before.

[kayky]

[quote=kayky;455960]

God is my Father in heaven..


What does that actually mean?

[jumbojava]

How much of the Bible have you actually read?
All of it.

[Corrigan37]

[quote=Corrigan37;455973]


"God" and "Nirvana" are just words. They both point to the same reality. I don't even know what you mean by a "trance-like state." It seems to me that union with ultimate reality would make you more awake and more alive than ever before.

Where in the bible does it state a Christian needs to find enlightment? all the bible tells you is to believe and obey..

God and nirvana aren't the same because .. How can Nirvana be God when nirvana disbelieves in God?

naa... I don't buy it..
This is why you don't mix other faiths into Christianity..

[jumbojava]

Not on enemies in war, NO!
What possible threat or enemies could infants and babes in the wombs possibly be to a god?

Are you reading what you are writing??


He gives enough warnings, and in the end, all words fail. He's compassionate to the point he gets to that he's told people a million times, still the same thing goes through their mind out of yes, STUBBORN NESS!
So he kills babies to make his point.

What a monster.

[Corrigan37]

[quote=Corrigan37;455976]

What does that actually mean?

Have you read the bible?
That is how we know of God..
He is our Father in heaven who controls all things and we will eventually stand before him one day.. and give account for ourselves..

[jumbojava]

[quote=kayky;455989]

Where in the bible does it state a Christian needs to find enlightment? all the bible tells you is to believe and obey..
And if you dont the biblegod will have his revenge on you.

Worship or die, baby.


God and nirvana aren't the same because .. How can Nirvana be God when nirvana disbelieves in God?

naa... I don't buy it..
This is why you don't mix other faiths into Christianity..
The bible god has vowed to destroy all other faiths (taking its people with it when nessecary.).

Is it any wonder the relgion spawnded by this god finds other faiths 'creepy'....?

[jumbojava]

He is our Father in heaven who controls all things and we will eventually stand before him one day.. and give account for ourselves..
IOW's the biblegod owns you. Just like cattle or dogs. If he feels like culling the herd and destroying the undesirables he has all the right and it doenst have to have a reason either. It can do what it wants with its property.

I think it's time to declare our independence.

[wontgetfooledagain]

Where in the bible does it state a Christian needs to find enlightment? all the bible tells you is to believe and obey..
..

Why do you believe and obey the Bible Carrie?

[Corrigan37]

Why do you believe and obey the Bible Carrie?

Because i believe Rob.. It's not just anything you can explain Rob..

I see good and the bad.. yet i still believe..

Job 13

15Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.

You know I have told you of some of my anger and temper tantrums with God.. yet here I am still trusting in him.. and believing in him and worshipping him..

I can't not believe.. I don't know how..
Not that I want to.. I surely don't.. but..
I can't imagine walking away from God..

[Corrigan37]

this working yet?

[Corrigan37]

yep it is..

[wontgetfooledagain]

Because i believe Rob.. It's not just anything you can explain Rob..

I see good and the bad.. yet i still believe..

Job 13

15Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.

You know I have told you of some of my anger and temper tantrums with God.. yet here I am still trusting in him.. and believing in him and worshipping him..

I can't not believe.. I don't know how..
Not that I want to.. I surely don't.. but..
I can't imagine walking away from God..

So what you're telling me Carrie is that there is nothing you can show me that can give me a