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9 years ago  ::  Jun 16, 2009 - 2:18PM #1
Posts: 624


I borrowed the title of the thread from the famous book angels and demons. This thread has nothing to do with the book.

God created Adam (Man) to reside eternally in the Garden of Eden. Man was enticed by the serpent  (the representative of  the Devil or Satan or  Demon) to disobey God's command and as a result Adam (Man) was sent out of the Garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was was taken. In other words Man is going to live a worldly life where he will work and sweat for his daily living, and raises his children to work and sweat. This is the worldly life of Man which God intended to be hard for him, in order to repent and learn the lesson and return to the Garden of Eden once more as God ordained for him in the very beginning.

But the devil (demon or Satan) who is the enemy of God, intended something else for Man. The Demon intended that Man will never learn the lesson and should never return back to the Garden of Eden. Therefore the Demon decided to make Man's worldly life -not as hard and difficult as God intended- but beautified it for Man, made pleasurable, made it enjoyable, made fulfilling, made it satisfying and even enticing for Man, so that Man will never see that it is hard and difficult. Therefore Man will never ever think of leaving it and searching for a way out from its pain and misery in order to establish himself back in the Garden of Eden. To make worldly life enjoyable and beautiful for Man, the Demon sent his archfiend the archfiend of security, to make Man's heart secure in this worldly life, because the Demon knows very well that without Man's feeling of being secure he can never enjoy the worldly life. The archfiend of security did and is doing a beautiful work.

God understood the plan of the Demon, therefore out God's infinite Mercy and Wisdom; God intended to abort the scheme of the Demon and save Man from that miserable destiny. Accordingly, God ordered the Archangel of fear to install the fear of worldly living in the heart of Man, in order not to surrender to the enticing security of worldly living delivered to the heart of Man by the Archfiend of security.

The war is still going on up to this moment. 


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9 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2009 - 1:37AM #2
Posts: 837

     The nature of Ahura Mazda is that He is a good and just. Mazda also has both masculine and feminine characteristics. As the ‘Lord’ Mazda is masculine. As the ‘Wise’, Mazda is feminine. Mazda is omniscient, but not omnipotent. Mazda’s omniscience is due to His complete wisdom. Due to Mazda’s nature of being good and just, Mazda is in cable of performing any act that can cause harm.  This is a limiting factor. Thus He is not omnipotent.  He is the nature of existence. Mazda is also seen as The Divine Friend.

     Next in the line of yazatas are the Amesha Spentas. These are the beneficiate immortals they are roughly equivalent  to archangels. They are the ministering spirits to whom Mazda issues the divine commands. They are:

1.       Vohu Manah- Divine Thought

2.       Asha Vahista- Best Righteousness

3.       Khshathra Vairya- Wished for Kingdom

4.       Spenta Armaiti- Bountiful Devotion

5.       Haurvatat-Saving Health

6.       Ameretat- Immortality

Ahura Mazda is the seventh member. Sometimes Sraosha completes the holy number. Their names appear in the Gathas, though the title Amesha Spenta does not appear in the Gathar, but rather the later Avesta and Pahlavi texts.  Vohu Manah represents Mazda’s good spirit and divine wisdom. He is the first being of creation. He is also in charge of useful animals.  Asha Vahista is the best righteousness. He is Mazda’s second. He represents divine law and holy order. Atash (fire) stands next to him. All fires are under his care. Khshathra Vairya is the desired sovereignty. He takes care of the poor and annihilates evil. Spenta Armaiti is bountiful devotion. She represents the personification of faithful devotion. She is in charge of taking care of the Earth.  Haurvatat and Ameretat  are two  female archangels that form a pair. They are always seen as inseparable in the literature. Haurvatat is the saving health, perfection, and salvation. Ameretat signifies immortality. They are a prototype of vigor and endurance. This pair is related to water and vegetation.  As time passed the term Amesha Spenta acquired a looser meaning. Other yazata were also being included.

      The Zoroastrians believe in various deities that were created by Ahura Mazda. The most important of these are a group of seven known as the Amesha Spenta. This group has a dual role as being the centerpieces of Zoroastrian morality and as protectors of the seven parts of creation. The most important is Spenta Mainyu or the Spirit of Wisdom. Spenta Mainyu is the same deity as Ahura Mazda. From Spenta Mainyu to other Amesha Spenta comes into being. The other Amesha Spenta are Vohu Mano (Good Mind), Asha Vahista (Holy Order), Khshathra Vairya (Sovereign Kingdom), Armaiti (Piety), Huarvatat (Perfection), and Ameretat (Immortality). Khshathra Vairya is also the protector of the sky. Huarvatat is the protector of the water. Spenta Armaiti is the protector of the earth. Ameretat is the protector of the plants. Vohu Mano is the protector of the cattle. Spenta Mainyu is the protector of mankind. Finally Asha Vahista is the protector of fire.

      Third in order following Ahura Mazda are the Yazatas. They were created after the Amesha Spentas. They are essentially angels. They transmit and carry out the will of Mazda. In the Avesta there are two kinds of Yazatas: spiritual and material.  Mazda Himself is the greatest Yazata. The most important of the worldly Yazatas is Zarathustra. They are also the guardians of the sun, moon, stars, earth, air, fire, and water.  They are also personifications of abstract ideas. The most important are as follows: Atar (fire), Apo (water), Hvarekhshaeta (Sun), Mah (moon), Tishtrya (a star), Mithra (light), Sraosha (truth), Rashnu (good faith),  Fravashis (guardian spirits), Verethraghna or Bahram (Genius of Victory), Rama Hvastra (sky), Vata (wind), Daena (religion), Ashi Vanuhi (piety), Arshtat (rectitude), Asman (heaven), Zem (Earth), Manthra Spenta (Holy Word of Ahura Mazda), Anaghra Raochao (Infinite Light), and Haoma  (soma ). These were the principle Yazatas. There are thousands more earthly and Heavenly deities.  These are associated with the main Yazatas.

       With the Amesha Spenta another group of twenty-three deities are added. The entire group of thirty is the Yazatas or Those Who are Worthy of Worship. This group includes many of the same Vedic deities of the ancient Aryan religion.  Mithra (Mitra), Varuna, Vata, and Apam Napat are members of this group. Ardvi Sura Anahita is a popular goddess that was introduced from the Babylonians. She is the converted Ishtar. In addition there are the fravashi or the guardian angels. The fravohar or winged sun with superimposed priest is a popular image that represents the fravashi.

     The principle of goodness is opposed by the principle of evil.  Evil itself has been a great factor in world history. This is most conspicuous in it’s war against the Good. The most commonly used word for demon is daeva. Its origin is the same as the Sanskrit word deva (god). The difference between the two differing meanings is due to the rejection of Vedic deities as being evil. They also come under the label druj (deceit).  In the Avesta and the Pahlavi texts the amount of demons are to be considered legion. These beings have properties that are opposites of the Yazatas. They are not well planned or organized as the Heavenly Host. They do not show individual characteristics, and work in bands. The head of the Daevas is Angra Mainyu.

     Angra Mainyu is the direct opponent to Ahura Mazda. Mazda only appears as Spenta Mainyu when he is contrasted with Angra Mainyu.  According to many  Parsis, Angra Mainyu is a creation of Mazda,  but a creation along with Spenta Mainyu. In this version Spenta Mainyu is the one with conflict against Angra Mainyu. According to the Gathas the two are twins but having different qualities. They do not exist in-themselves. When Mazda creates an opposition is the postulated. Thus there is a monotheistic dualism.

      Angra Mainyu is the principle of evil. He  was never considered to be a fallen angel, or as an emanation of Mazda.  But neither is he immortal as Mazda is.  In the Gathas he is seen as the evil spirit. His character can be summed up as evil or harmful. His dwelling place is the abode of worst thought. In the later Avesta he is seen as the spoiler as soiler of the beneficent deeds of Ahura Mazda. He cannot abolish something that is good but he can weaken it. When Mazda created the world Angra Mainyu say it and became jealous of its beauty. He then crossed the creation of the Good Law. He would counter create Mazda’s creation. In a response to life he created death.  In the later Pahlavi texts his identity and actions a made more concrete.

     The Avesta speaks of a hellish horde of demons, Daevas, Drujes, Drvants, Pairikas, and dragons. There is no regular organization to this group. These are loosely portrayed as opposites to the Amesha Spentas and other Yazatas. This is most obvious in the six principle Daevas.  These beings are creations of Angra Mainyu. Their purpose is to war against good and mankind. They mostly appear as spirits, but some appear as humans.  Their worshipers are known as daevayasna.  Zarathustra was a disaster to the Daevas. Before they could practice openly, but now they had to go into hiding. Eventually they returned to practice openly. They are attracted to all  unseemliness particularly dead bodies.  There are six major arch-demons.  Their names  appear mostly in the Vendidad:

1.        Aka Manah

2.        Indra

3.        Sauru

4.        Naonhaithya

5.        Taurvi

6.        Zairich

Another demon to be considered is Aeshma. This is the demon of wrath.

     Besides the Daevas the hellish host includes many other evil beings. The first group to mention is the Druj (Falsehood, Deceit).  Their opponent is Asha.  Then there is Nasu, the Corpse Fiend. This is the personification of corruption, decomposition, contagion, and impurity.  His form is a fly. Azhi Dahaka is the chief representative of the fiendish race.  This being is half human and half monster. He is described as having three heads, six eyes, and three jaws. He is the demonical fiend that brings destruction to the world. The Thraetaona will finally destroy him. Jahi is a female fiend who daunted Angra Mainyu to invade Mazda’s creation.

     There are also various malevolent powers and evil personages. There are the Yatus who are black magicians. The Pairikas are a class of beautiful and seductive enchantress. Their influence is felt on the earth, fire ,water, cattle, and vegetation. The Satars are foreign tyrants. The Kavis and Karapans are the mumbler priests that Zarathustra refers to.

     As to the cosmos the planets are considered to be evil stars they are stars that marred the celestial journeys of stellar objects.  They are held in check by the good stars that act like protectors of the  sky. 

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9 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2009 - 5:06PM #3
Posts: 122

M said....."But the devil (demon or Satan) who is the enemy of God, intended something else for Man. The Demon intended that Man will never learn the lesson and should never return back to the Garden of Eden.."


From my understanding....and it does seem to change in some regards...though the bases of all my thought is God is Love.... now how we interprete the Word God....seems to be the hurdle as brothers we must jump. 

I have always had a hard time understanding how both Divine Love which is of God the Father-Creator, and Evil could both exist...if the former was the Creator of it all.... 

So a different understanding at least in my mind has been my long-held search in this understand 'why' this battle between Good and Evil has come about...again referring to the original Idea, that all good things came out of God, and more so all things 'real' come out of God...

So now after years of contemplation and searching through ancient text...(old and new) its seems our grasp of the cosmos as a collective (humanity) is so complex, yet...complex does not make it any more true.   Man as a unique aspect of God...was different than all other creations...for Man has free will and can come to not only know god but remember coming out of Him/Her, he is also God.  Because of the possibilities that can arise through Free Will...all manner of experience is probable... as humans we tend to think in term of good and bad....

But the kicker is....the veil that covers the eyes of man, is this idea that anything real can be sustained outside of itself. 

For instance if I see my self as a Baker, I love to cook and create good foods....and yet after a time I go into another land to visit my brother who is a welder...and being who I am as a brother I chose to assist my brother in his work while visiting...and one job comes up after another until I begin to associate my life with welding...and slowly forget my love of baking....

Man...has the ability to be a that he can change what appears for something else instead...of course there is always the potential of exchanging one thing that brings joy...for something we think will add to this joy...but over the course of time...actually lessen it...the Joy of Living abundanly and in Grace.

Demons as we think of them are often seen as 'evil', as soul snatchers etc...   Liken to perhaps slick-car-saleman who will sell you just about anything with wheels to make that 'sale' that commision etc... it is what they do... forgetting themselves as a brother....forgetting that if they sale a good car...the customer may come back...if they sale a lemon...will...their conclusion, since their job is to sale cars...make a living first...than be a they may not only believe 'there is a sucker born every minute' but they deserve what they get.

Already....speaking of both Angels and Demons, this group has reference that each individual A or D have unique traits that are negative or positve... thus we have Spiritual Virtues manifest to help guide us (compassion, wisdm, love, courage, creativity etc...or we have Carnal Virutes guiding us...the latter can be understood by thinking in terms of worldly attainments and the behaviors some take on to accomplish these desires...fostering, greed, deciet, lies, impatience, judgment, addictions and all manner of human behaviors that we may adopt and confess are 'real'... but can only be temporary at best...for the real comes out of God...all else is illusion.... but since we play in a land that eternal life is reality...time and space mean nothing in the bigger picture....

Teachers like Zorestor, since he was brought up...thought long and hard on how to get people to turn toward the inner light, toward the inherent goodness in Men...but because men of his time and clime were so caught up in their carnal desires (forgetfulness)...he taught them that there were competing Gods if you well...Good God and an Evil god.  and told his followeres they had to work hard to follow the Good God (being kind to others, kind to animals, and to pray daily.)  and following the bad god...they were being unkind, liers, greedy and the like...and this was how they would know the difference.

There is an Angel known as Armashaya...the Angel of Blessings, and seen in a famus painting of Jesus praying in the garden before his arrest...battling his human self to renigg on what his spiritual self had come to this painting...the angel is standing overhim, from behind with his/her hands on his him the strenght to overcome his weakness inpercept and complete his not only carry the weight of the world on his own shoulders...but to teach when we have Life...death is not possible.

The demons as I see them in this thread iare not real.... any more than you could say a drug seeks out get them to become addicted and use them everyday.... no it first become the choice of the use them or not... the drugs are not the evil--but man's misuse of them becomes evil, which is no more than replacing the light within with darkness (ignorance or forgetfulness)... this is how I see demons... temporary illusion (false gods even) that we can follow if we wish when we think what they offer is more than what God has already given us....but remain in a way hidden from our sight...

just some thougts... peace j








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